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GS718Trek
Yellow Belt
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Joined: 08 Oct 2014
Posts: 61


PostPosted: Sun Jul 18, 2021 3:38 pm    Post subject: Belonging to orgs outside of your main style Reply with quote

What are everyones thoughts on joining or belonging to organizations outside of your main style?

Say you are a Karateka belonging to you current Karate organization, but also belong to another big organization that consists of other MA styles etc.

Are there any reputable martial arts organizations out there that are non political and welcome all MA regardless of style?

[/b]


Last edited by GS718Trek on Sun Jul 18, 2021 9:09 pm; edited 1 time in total
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sensei8
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Joined: 23 Feb 2008
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Location: Houston, TX
Styles: Shindokan Saitou-ryu [Shuri-te/Okinawa-te based]

PostPosted: Sun Jul 18, 2021 8:49 pm    Post subject: Re: Belonging to orgs outside of your main style Reply with quote

GS718Trek wrote:
What are everyones thoughts on joining or belonging to outside organizations outside of your main style?

Say you are a Karateka belonging to you current Karate organization, but also belong to another big organization that consists of other styles etc.

Are there any reputable martial arts organizations out there that are non political and welcome all MA regardless of style?


To the bold above...

Yes. Yes.

Albeit, those Governing Bodies tend to be on the side of profit without any other goals. There focus is on the bottom line. So, yes, Governing Bodies allow members to join, even though they're members elsewhere.

"No man can serve two masters: for either he will hate the one, and love the other; or else. he will hold to the one, and despise the other"

Difficult to separate the two Governing Bodies due to the possibility of conflict between the two. Allowed here, but not allowed there. Darn if you do, and darn if you don't.

Governing Bodies are quite propriety across the board, of which, they don't like to share the floor with other Governing Bodies. Being stuck in the middle isn't always a very comfortable thing for the members to endure.

Many Governing Bodies, like the one I was with forever and a day, the SKKA, would warn the offending student once, then pull their Hard Card for cause. as inactive. Once the offending student decided to return to the SKKA, and only the SKKA, their Hard Card would be return to the active file.

One can join anywhere they want to with anyone who'll accept them. Happens day after day, however, many Governing Bodies strongly deter that act from its Student Body.

Can't please some of the Governing Bodies all of the time, you can please all of Governing Bodies some of the time. but you can't please all of the Governing Bodies all of the time.

Imho!!



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Himokiri Karate
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Joined: 13 Aug 2009
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PostPosted: Sun Jul 18, 2021 8:58 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Absolutely!

Right now my main focus is on Korean Karate but of course the school is affiliated with WT because its more popular and has a global structure. But at the end of the day, we are all martial artist who seek mastery in our skills.

In this forum, I made post about getting a black belt but my style of karate is more of a Korean flavor. Of course I found a fantastic Taekwondo school that deep down teaches moves from grappling and Tang Soo Do. But for sake of running a business its good to align yourself with an organization that also holds competition so the students can set goals and work towards a purpose within a ruleset of a particular combat sport.

When I do my private lesson, I don't wear a belt, its irrelevant at the end of the day because my effort that gives birth to my technique is what matters in the end.

This is one of the days I LOVE about judo, getting belts means scoring points. My Judo comes from a sambo teacher and again, when we are in middle of practice, the gi falls apart. I am either a grappler or striker at the end of the day.
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GS718Trek
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Joined: 08 Oct 2014
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PostPosted: Sun Jul 18, 2021 9:29 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

@Sensei8

What if you just have your name listed under the outside org for 3rd party recognition (for business purposes for example) but have no activity with that org whatsoever? And you are very active with you main org..

Does the SKKA for example, look down on that and would they still give the member a warning or label them inactive?
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GS718Trek
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Joined: 08 Oct 2014
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PostPosted: Sun Jul 18, 2021 9:32 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Himokiri Karate wrote:
Absolutely!

Right now my main focus is on Korean Karate but of course the school is affiliated with WT because its more popular and has a global structure. But at the end of the day, we are all martial artist who seek mastery in our skills.

In this forum, I made post about getting a black belt but my style of karate is more of a Korean flavor. Of course I found a fantastic Taekwondo school that deep down teaches moves from grappling and Tang Soo Do. But for sake of running a business its good to align yourself with an organization that also holds competition so the students can set goals and work towards a purpose within a ruleset of a particular combat sport.

When I do my private lesson, I don't wear a belt, its irrelevant at the end of the day because my effort that gives birth to my technique is what matters in the end.

This is one of the days I LOVE about judo, getting belts means scoring points. My Judo comes from a sambo teacher and again, when we are in middle of practice, the gi falls apart. I am either a grappler or striker at the end of the day.




How do Korean martial art orgs look at this type of scenario out of curiosity? I am only familiar with Karate orgs and their politics lol.
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Wastelander
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Joined: 18 Oct 2010
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Styles: Shorin-Ryu, Shuri-Ryu, Judo, KishimotoDi

PostPosted: Mon Jul 19, 2021 8:00 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I joined the World Combat Association (a style-agnostic org) while I was still a member of the Shorinkan (a Shorin-Ryu-specific org), and it didn't cause a problem, although I did eventually leave the Shorinkan because of how they treated me.

Whether it is acceptable or not is going to vary from school to school, because some are very big on "loyalty," in whatever form they expect it. In general, though, I would say that it's not that uncommon to belong to a style-specific organization and one or more style-agnostic organizations. The reason for this is typically for participation in tournaments, because you will generally get discounts on attendance or additional insurance coverage by being members of the organization that is hosting/sponsoring the tournament. Non-competition-based organizations are sometimes more money-focused, as Bob pointed out, although some, like the WCA, are more about connecting like-minded individuals so that beneficial material can be easily shared, as well as setting a standard for those who are traveling or relocating to use to find a new school to train at.
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Zaine
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Joined: 31 Aug 2005
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Location: Dallas, TX
Styles: Matsumura-Seito, Shobayashi-Ryu, Shudokan, Long Fist, American Street Karate, Southern Mantis, HEMA

PostPosted: Mon Jul 19, 2021 8:53 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

100% okay with it. Different perspectives are really important and I love branching out and learning from other people. Especially style-agnostic orgs. I think that Martial Arts flourishes when we can get together, organized or not, and share our techniques and grow.

Wastelander is right, however, that some schools might not like for you to do that. Personally, I find required loyalty to be a crutch. I generally don't seek others with the intention of moving on, but with the hope to learn more and make myself better. I was lucky in my initial school because my teacher was perfectly fine with us looking in to organizations and he allied himself with a few different schools to create a network. That was a lot of fun because it allowed us to duck in to these other classes (with permission and advance notice) and learn some different things.
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GS718Trek
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Joined: 08 Oct 2014
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PostPosted: Mon Jul 19, 2021 6:11 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Wastelander wrote:
I joined the World Combat Association (a style-agnostic org) while I was still a member of the Shorinkan (a Shorin-Ryu-specific org), and it didn't cause a problem, although I did eventually leave the Shorinkan because of how they treated me.

Whether it is acceptable or not is going to vary from school to school, because some are very big on "loyalty," in whatever form they expect it. In general, though, I would say that it's not that uncommon to belong to a style-specific organization and one or more style-agnostic organizations. The reason for this is typically for participation in tournaments, because you will generally get discounts on attendance or additional insurance coverage by being members of the organization that is hosting/sponsoring the tournament. Non-competition-based organizations are sometimes more money-focused, as Bob pointed out, although some, like the WCA, are more about connecting like-minded individuals so that beneficial material can be easily shared, as well as setting a standard for those who are traveling or relocating to use to find a new school to train at.



I saw that WCA is lead by Ian Abernathy (Big fan of his bunkai breakdowns and own some of his dvds)

Ive always liked his approach to bringing practicality back to Karate, but I have to say, I swear the guy rarely blinks his eye in his videos!!

Seems like a solid associatiin thats UK based
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Himokiri Karate
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Joined: 13 Aug 2009
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PostPosted: Mon Jul 19, 2021 7:01 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

GS718Trek wrote:
Himokiri Karate wrote:
Absolutely!

Right now my main focus is on Korean Karate but of course the school is affiliated with WT because its more popular and has a global structure. But at the end of the day, we are all martial artist who seek mastery in our skills.

In this forum, I made post about getting a black belt but my style of karate is more of a Korean flavor. Of course I found a fantastic Taekwondo school that deep down teaches moves from grappling and Tang Soo Do. But for sake of running a business its good to align yourself with an organization that also holds competition so the students can set goals and work towards a purpose within a ruleset of a particular combat sport.

When I do my private lesson, I don't wear a belt, its irrelevant at the end of the day because my effort that gives birth to my technique is what matters in the end.

This is one of the days I LOVE about judo, getting belts means scoring points. My Judo comes from a sambo teacher and again, when we are in middle of practice, the gi falls apart. I am either a grappler or striker at the end of the day.




How do Korean martial art orgs look at this type of scenario out of curiosity? I am only familiar with Karate orgs and their politics lol.



They don't like it in a sense because for sake of marketing, they want everything to be Taekwondo. Now keep in mind that, Tang Soo Do was renamed Taekwondo to wash away the Japanese and Chinese identity so the Korean culture can have its own identity. To that end, some Tang Soo Do moves were modified and more kicking was added to the curriculum in order to show case a modernize resurrection of the ancient Korean art of Taekkyon. Of course they still wanted to hold on to the Karate tradition and belt system because it is too good for business but also it creates a structure.

Of times, Hapkido is used as an umbrella term to teach non-taekwondo techniques. My school teaches taekwondo and hapkido. But the moves I picked from hapkido are those that are as close to Tang Soo Do as possible. Most of it is identity politics that is rooted in tribalism.
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bushido_man96
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Location: Hays, KS
Styles: Taekwondo, Combat Hapkido, Aikido, GRACIE

PostPosted: Mon Jul 19, 2021 7:52 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

GS718Trek wrote:
Wastelander wrote:
I joined the World Combat Association (a style-agnostic org) while I was still a member of the Shorinkan (a Shorin-Ryu-specific org), and it didn't cause a problem, although I did eventually leave the Shorinkan because of how they treated me.

Whether it is acceptable or not is going to vary from school to school, because some are very big on "loyalty," in whatever form they expect it. In general, though, I would say that it's not that uncommon to belong to a style-specific organization and one or more style-agnostic organizations. The reason for this is typically for participation in tournaments, because you will generally get discounts on attendance or additional insurance coverage by being members of the organization that is hosting/sponsoring the tournament. Non-competition-based organizations are sometimes more money-focused, as Bob pointed out, although some, like the WCA, are more about connecting like-minded individuals so that beneficial material can be easily shared, as well as setting a standard for those who are traveling or relocating to use to find a new school to train at.



I saw that WCA is lead by Ian Abernathy (Big fan of his bunkai breakdowns and own some of his dvds)

Ive always liked his approach to bringing practicality back to Karate, but I have to say, I swear the guy rarely blinks his eye in his videos!!

Seems like a solid associatiin thats UK based


I've seen orgs like his, and I believe Stuart Abernethy (for lack of a better analogy, he's the Iain Abernethy of TKD...) has or is is part of an organization that is set up for like minded Martial Artists to have a path of communication and to set up training, seminars, discuss protocols for testing their methods, etc.

I like the idea of joining organizations like this, that are more focused on things like training methods and goals, as opposed to determining a course curriculum or technical foundations.
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