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sensei8
KF Sensei
Joined: 23 Feb 2008
Posts: 16427
Location: Las Vegas, NV
Styles: Shindokan Saitou-ryu [Shuri-te/Okinawa-te based]
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 Posted: Sat Mar 28, 2015 9:25 pm Post subject: Re: testing fees |
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| eddien134 wrote: |
i charge testing fees, but if they do not pass they get a refund.
i explain to everyone that comes in the doors before they sign up understand there is extra costs to martial arts.
belt testings sparring gear weapons.
and no one is surprised by anything and 99 percent of the time people still sign up.
i only test people when they are ready to i pretest them for free and if they press the issue of testing before they are ready i charge 25 non refundable.
all my student know this and there is no issue. |
Welcome to KF; glad that you're here!!
_________________
**Proof is on the floor!!! |
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Nidan Melbourne
KF Sempai
Joined: 21 Aug 2013
Posts: 2358
Location: Melbourne, Australia
Styles: Goju-Ryu, BJJ, Balintawak Arnis
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| Posted: Sun Mar 29, 2015 12:07 am Post subject: |
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| Tbh sounds like a belt factory |
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Lupin1
Black Belt
Joined: 15 Dec 2009
Posts: 1637
Location: Naples, FL
Styles: Isshinryu
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| Posted: Sun Mar 29, 2015 7:52 am Post subject: |
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We do promotions very often for the kids at the beginning.
We don't do testing fees as we never officially test, we just promote when ready and they pay for the belt if they'd like to keep their old one (or they return their old belt and get the new one for free).
My instructor specifically added belts between white and yellow so that new students get new belts quickly. In his official curriculum, he had three kata to learn at white belt. For the adults, it's still that way. But he noticed most kids would get frustrated and quit when it took almost an entire school year to get to yellow belt.
So, in the interest of keeping the kids coming to class and learning, he split white belt into three belts for kids (he also added a Junior Black Belt more recently which coincides with adult brown belt).
They usually get their purple belt very quickly after 1.5-2 months. He chose purple figuring it would be extra motivating for them to get the darkest belt possible right out of the gate. About 2 months later, they get their orange belt. Then usually 3-4 months later is their yellow belt.
So they seem to be getting promoted very rapidly in the beginning, which keeps them motivated, but in reality all they're doing is moving from white to yellow in 6-8 months.
After that it slows down, taking progressively longer as they go. The whole thing looks something like this:
white (8th kyu)
purple (8th kyu) [1.5-2 months]
orange (8th kyu) [2 months]
yellow (7th kyu) [3-4 months]
blue (6th kyu) [4-6 months]
green (5th kyu) [4-6 months]
brown (4th kyu) [8-12 months]
1st jr black (3rd kyu) [12+ months]
2nd jr black (2nd kyu) [12+ months]
3rd jr black (1st kyu) [12+ months]
black (shodan) [12+ months]
For a total of about 4 years to junior black and about 7 to full adult black belt. |
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chiliphil1
Orange Belt
Joined: 29 Oct 2011
Posts: 225
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| Posted: Sun Mar 29, 2015 8:55 am Post subject: |
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| Dobbersky wrote: |
What gets me is $30 for a bit of electrical tape around the end of the belt?
I tend to have a system where I have 3 to 4 stripes around the belt before they can grade for the next colour (they don't pay for these stripes) |
That's how my old school did it. In my opinion that is excellent for the kids, it gives them a sense of achievement rather often and keeps them striving to move forward plus it doesn't drain any wallets!
Now, my school ran $200 for dan gradings, but that did include registration with the national governing body, we tested in a hotel conference room, so it covered the cost of that, and also it covered expenses for the board members including the founder of our system..
All in all, it is terribly steep but when you think of where the money goes it makes sense.. I want to say the gup gradings were $35, I could be wrong it's been a while since I did one of those.
When I look back at my school I think that sometimes it was a bit of a mcdojo but for the most part I think it was on the up and up. We graded every 3 months and if you were ready and your time in rank was satisfied you could test at each one, that's how I moved up so quickly. I also attended classes 6 days a week, so I was definitely prepared when it came to the grading cycle.
I think that rapid advancement of some sort is needed with younger practitioners, hence why I am a big fan of the colored stripes between gradings, it really makes you feel like you're doing something. Now the way that I would do it personally would be to have around 10-12 ranks for juniors and also add the colored stripes, probably grade every 3-6 months and allow them to move up but at the black belt level I would have an age requirement and an extremely high standard. For the adults I would only have 3-4 belts total, I feel that they do not need the same motivation that the juniors would and therefore could be in the same rank longer, this would insure that their costs were kept down and also that when they did move up there would be substantial improvement, I would probably only grade them once a year.. At least that's how I see it but alas I do not have my own style, or even my own school.
_________________
Black belt AFAF # 178
Tang Soo Do
8th Kyu
Matsubayashi ryu shorin ryu karate |
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Nidan Melbourne
KF Sempai
Joined: 21 Aug 2013
Posts: 2358
Location: Melbourne, Australia
Styles: Goju-Ryu, BJJ, Balintawak Arnis
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| Posted: Sun Mar 29, 2015 3:11 pm Post subject: |
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| Lupin1 wrote: |
We do promotions very often for the kids at the beginning.
We don't do testing fees as we never officially test, we just promote when ready and they pay for the belt if they'd like to keep their old one (or they return their old belt and get the new one for free).
My instructor specifically added belts between white and yellow so that new students get new belts quickly. In his official curriculum, he had three kata to learn at white belt. For the adults, it's still that way. But he noticed most kids would get frustrated and quit when it took almost an entire school year to get to yellow belt.
So, in the interest of keeping the kids coming to class and learning, he split white belt into three belts for kids (he also added a Junior Black Belt more recently which coincides with adult brown belt).
They usually get their purple belt very quickly after 1.5-2 months. He chose purple figuring it would be extra motivating for them to get the darkest belt possible right out of the gate. About 2 months later, they get their orange belt. Then usually 3-4 months later is their yellow belt.
So they seem to be getting promoted very rapidly in the beginning, which keeps them motivated, but in reality all they're doing is moving from white to yellow in 6-8 months.
After that it slows down, taking progressively longer as they go. The whole thing looks something like this:
white (8th kyu)
purple (8th kyu) [1.5-2 months]
orange (8th kyu) [2 months]
yellow (7th kyu) [3-4 months]
blue (6th kyu) [4-6 months]
green (5th kyu) [4-6 months]
brown (4th kyu) [8-12 months]
1st jr black (3rd kyu) [12+ months]
2nd jr black (2nd kyu) [12+ months]
3rd jr black (1st kyu) [12+ months]
black (shodan) [12+ months]
For a total of about 4 years to junior black and about 7 to full adult black belt. |
What was the overall reasoning for students returning their belts after being promoted? I am guessing it is to save on costs of belts (for the operations front)? |
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Nidan Melbourne
KF Sempai
Joined: 21 Aug 2013
Posts: 2358
Location: Melbourne, Australia
Styles: Goju-Ryu, BJJ, Balintawak Arnis
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| Posted: Sun Mar 29, 2015 3:18 pm Post subject: |
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| chiliphil1 wrote: |
| Dobbersky wrote: |
What gets me is $30 for a bit of electrical tape around the end of the belt?
I tend to have a system where I have 3 to 4 stripes around the belt before they can grade for the next colour (they don't pay for these stripes) |
That's how my old school did it. In my opinion that is excellent for the kids, it gives them a sense of achievement rather often and keeps them striving to move forward plus it doesn't drain any wallets!
Now, my school ran $200 for dan gradings, but that did include registration with the national governing body, we tested in a hotel conference room, so it covered the cost of that, and also it covered expenses for the board members including the founder of our system..
All in all, it is terribly steep but when you think of where the money goes it makes sense.. I want to say the gup gradings were $35, I could be wrong it's been a while since I did one of those.
When I look back at my school I think that sometimes it was a bit of a mcdojo but for the most part I think it was on the up and up. We graded every 3 months and if you were ready and your time in rank was satisfied you could test at each one, that's how I moved up so quickly. I also attended classes 6 days a week, so I was definitely prepared when it came to the grading cycle.
I think that rapid advancement of some sort is needed with younger practitioners, hence why I am a big fan of the colored stripes between gradings, it really makes you feel like you're doing something. Now the way that I would do it personally would be to have around 10-12 ranks for juniors and also add the colored stripes, probably grade every 3-6 months and allow them to move up but at the black belt level I would have an age requirement and an extremely high standard. For the adults I would only have 3-4 belts total, I feel that they do not need the same motivation that the juniors would and therefore could be in the same rank longer, this would insure that their costs were kept down and also that when they did move up there would be substantial improvement, I would probably only grade them once a year.. At least that's how I see it but alas I do not have my own style, or even my own school. |
Why are your dan gradings so expensive? I'm curious to know the breakdown of the price for it? If there are more or less of people that are eligible to grade does that cost change? |
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chiliphil1
Orange Belt
Joined: 29 Oct 2011
Posts: 225
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| Posted: Mon Mar 30, 2015 8:47 am Post subject: |
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| Nidan Melbourne wrote: |
| chiliphil1 wrote: |
| Dobbersky wrote: |
What gets me is $30 for a bit of electrical tape around the end of the belt?
I tend to have a system where I have 3 to 4 stripes around the belt before they can grade for the next colour (they don't pay for these stripes) |
That's how my old school did it. In my opinion that is excellent for the kids, it gives them a sense of achievement rather often and keeps them striving to move forward plus it doesn't drain any wallets!
Now, my school ran $200 for dan gradings, but that did include registration with the national governing body, we tested in a hotel conference room, so it covered the cost of that, and also it covered expenses for the board members including the founder of our system..
All in all, it is terribly steep but when you think of where the money goes it makes sense.. I want to say the gup gradings were $35, I could be wrong it's been a while since I did one of those.
When I look back at my school I think that sometimes it was a bit of a mcdojo but for the most part I think it was on the up and up. We graded every 3 months and if you were ready and your time in rank was satisfied you could test at each one, that's how I moved up so quickly. I also attended classes 6 days a week, so I was definitely prepared when it came to the grading cycle.
I think that rapid advancement of some sort is needed with younger practitioners, hence why I am a big fan of the colored stripes between gradings, it really makes you feel like you're doing something. Now the way that I would do it personally would be to have around 10-12 ranks for juniors and also add the colored stripes, probably grade every 3-6 months and allow them to move up but at the black belt level I would have an age requirement and an extremely high standard. For the adults I would only have 3-4 belts total, I feel that they do not need the same motivation that the juniors would and therefore could be in the same rank longer, this would insure that their costs were kept down and also that when they did move up there would be substantial improvement, I would probably only grade them once a year.. At least that's how I see it but alas I do not have my own style, or even my own school. |
Why are your dan gradings so expensive? I'm curious to know the breakdown of the price for it? If there are more or less of people that are eligible to grade does that cost change? |
I couldn't tell you why they charge so much. As I mentioned they do rent a hotel conference room, so I would assume that takes a good chunk of it. The founder of the style comes down so I would again have to assume it is paying his expenses as well.. The number of people does not affect the pricing, $200 is just what it is. Now, one good thing they did was after a dan grading you only had to pay your monthly dues for a year and then you didn't have to pay anymore until you ranked up again. You could theoretically get to dan, pay for a year, and then have free classes for life after that.. Most people didn't do that however.
_________________
Black belt AFAF # 178
Tang Soo Do
8th Kyu
Matsubayashi ryu shorin ryu karate |
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jaypo
Purple Belt
Joined: 26 Apr 2012
Posts: 520
Styles: Shotokan, Shorin Ryu
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| Posted: Mon Mar 30, 2015 1:15 pm Post subject: |
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I initially had reservations about the same issues, but I'm very confident now. I though there were gradings too often when I first started, but since I've become more involved in the business dealings, I understand why. There is a constant influx of new pupils where I train because it's located inside a gym. So as new members join the gym, we get new students. What my C.I. does is gauge the progress of everyone and try to test groups when they progress accordingly. But we also have the striped belt ranks for the lower level students to keep their attention. I was against this at first, but I've seen a lot of good students benefit from this that otherwise would have quit. One girl specifically, who is now a 3rd kyu now was ready to hang it up after 1 month with no test (she came from a McDojo and was used to people moving up fast). She had talent, but she wanted to test before C.I. was ready to test her for Yellow. So he allowed her to test with some younger students, and she achieved "advanced white" in our system. White belt with a black stripe. This kept her coming to class and learning until there was an opportunity to test her for Yellow, which she got. Fast forward 2 years, and she's now a 3rd kyu that will be testing for 2nd kyu during the next advanced testing cycle. And she's very good. But she would have quit had we not done something to keep her attention. She paid the cost of a new belt, a trophy, and a couple of bucks to the testing instructor.
Sometimes, you have to get creative. And sometimes, it pays off by keeping a promising pupil involved in the Martial Arts.
_________________
Seek Perfection of Character
Be Faithful
Endeavor
Respect others
Refrain from violent behavior. |
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Wastelander
KF Sensei
Joined: 18 Oct 2010
Posts: 2733
Location: Phoenix, AZ
Styles: Shorin-Ryu, Shuri-Ryu, Judo, KishimotoDi
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| Posted: Mon Mar 30, 2015 2:19 pm Post subject: |
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If it makes you feel any better, my shodan test cost $140. Our organization requires $100 per dan rank you are testing for, if you want to be recognized by the organization. I think this is to make up for the fact that they don't charge any membership dues, and dojo dues are very cheap. Getting a nice certificate written up by the head of our style is $40, but your rank would be recognized without it, so it isn't a necessary thing. My Sensei ate the cost of the embroidered Shureido belt he got for me.
_________________
Kishimoto-Di | 2014-Present | Sensei: Ulf Karlsson
Shorin-Ryu/Shinkoten Karate | 2010-Present: Yondan, Renshi | Sensei: Richard Poage (RIP), Jeff Allred (RIP)
Shuri-Ryu | 2006-2010: Sankyu | Sensei: Joey Johnston, Joe Walker (RIP)
Judo | 2007-2010: Gokyu | Sensei: Joe Walker (RIP), Ramon Rivera (RIP), Adrian Rivera
Illinois Practical Karate | International Neoclassical Karate Kobudo Society |
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Lupin1
Black Belt
Joined: 15 Dec 2009
Posts: 1637
Location: Naples, FL
Styles: Isshinryu
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| Posted: Mon Mar 30, 2015 3:27 pm Post subject: |
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| Nidan Melbourne wrote: |
| What was the overall reasoning for students returning their belts after being promoted? I am guessing it is to save on costs of belts (for the operations front)? |
Exactly. We have a lot of low income kids, so we give them the option of giving us $6 for a belt every few month, or just handing in their old one to be re-used. Most of them are surprisingly unsentimental about it. Once they get the new belt, they can't leave the old one in the dust fast enough. |
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on the post.
