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R5ky
Yellow Belt
Yellow Belt

Joined: 27 Jun 2022
Posts: 50


PostPosted: Sat Jul 02, 2022 3:48 pm    Post subject: Best advice for rolling againts a much heavier opponent Reply with quote

What should one do while rolling against a partner whose naturally on the heavy side with a 50-60 lb weight advantage?

Due to the weight of them taking the top spot, I frequently gas out and just tap from them being on top position.
It also depends on whether I pair with them at the beginning of the rolling session. Sometimes I can hold my own, but it quickly turns into a fight for my life, and by the time we exchange partners a couple more times till the finish of class, I'm already exhausted.

Anyone have any tips based on personal experience?
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Zaine
Black Belt
Black Belt

Joined: 31 Aug 2005
Posts: 2016
Location: Dallas, TX
Styles: Matsumura-Seito, Shobayashi-Ryu, Shudokan, Long Fist, American Street Karate, Southern Mantis, HEMA

PostPosted: Sat Jul 02, 2022 7:03 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

This is exactly why weight class exists in professional fighting. A 50 pound weight advantage is huge, and hard to overcome. I do not have the most experience against larger opponents when it comes to fighting on the ground, though the Sensei who originally trained me had more than 100 pounds on me (I never won against him). The thing he would always tell me is let them wear themselves out, gravity and using their weight against them is your friend, and pray the first two things are on your side today.
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DarthPenguin
Blue Belt
Blue Belt

Joined: 03 Dec 2021
Posts: 315
Location: Glasgow, Scotland
Styles: Shotokan, Judo, BJJ

PostPosted: Wed Jul 06, 2022 6:37 am    Post subject: Re: Best advice for rolling againts a much heavier opponent Reply with quote

R5ky wrote:
What should one do while rolling against a partner whose naturally on the heavy side with a 50-60 lb weight advantage?

Due to the weight of them taking the top spot, I frequently gas out and just tap from them being on top position.
It also depends on whether I pair with them at the beginning of the rolling session. Sometimes I can hold my own, but it quickly turns into a fight for my life, and by the time we exchange partners a couple more times till the finish of class, I'm already exhausted.

Anyone have any tips based on personal experience?


I'll approach this from the opposite side :

while not massive i'm about 225/230lbs and 6'4" so i often am the 'larger one' when rolling. The things that cause me the most problems are people who are annoying fast people with lots of changes of movement and position. i especially hate them working on speed passes of the guard etc. I have always found that smaller opponents have lots more space available for 'wriggling out' of things and a lot of focus needs placed on keeping them trapped/pinned.

I always try to start from my back and then i have to 'earn' being in top position. Once there then i can try to slow my opponent down and grind down if they are smaller but i want to earn it - not just get it because i am big. Maybe worth seeing if any of your training partners are amenable to practising this way - will do you both some good i find.

Otherwise you absolutely must avoid letting the bigger partner close space and settle onto you in a tight side control as you are then screwed tbh. Personally i prefer to hold side control and work submissions from there against someone smaller as when i move to mount they have a little more space to get out (though that might be my lack of skill)

Hopefully the above rambling is of some use!!
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R5ky
Yellow Belt
Yellow Belt

Joined: 27 Jun 2022
Posts: 50


PostPosted: Wed Jul 06, 2022 8:53 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
I'll approach this from the opposite side :

while not massive i'm about 225/230lbs and 6'4" so i often am the 'larger one' when rolling. The things that cause me the most problems are people who are annoying fast people with lots of changes of movement and position. i especially hate them working on speed passes of the guard etc. I have always found that smaller opponents have lots more space available for 'wriggling out' of things and a lot of focus needs placed on keeping them trapped/pinned.

I always try to start from my back and then i have to 'earn' being in top position. Once there then i can try to slow my opponent down and grind down if they are smaller but i want to earn it - not just get it because i am big. Maybe worth seeing if any of your training partners are amenable to practising this way - will do you both some good i find.

Otherwise you absolutely must avoid letting the bigger partner close space and settle onto you in a tight side control as you are then screwed tbh. Personally i prefer to hold side control and work submissions from there against someone smaller as when i move to mount they have a little more space to get out (though that might be my lack of skill)


I concur because I try to start off on my back as comfortably as possible.


Although the person in the top position can adjust to my own advancements, the more time he spends not being able to submit me lol

You're right; preventing being put in the position in the first place entirely is the wisest course of action!
still...the TD can occasionally be inevitable when you're gassed..and there you are
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DarthPenguin
Blue Belt
Blue Belt

Joined: 03 Dec 2021
Posts: 315
Location: Glasgow, Scotland
Styles: Shotokan, Judo, BJJ

PostPosted: Thu Jul 07, 2022 3:29 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

R5ky wrote:
Quote:
I'll approach this from the opposite side :

while not massive i'm about 225/230lbs and 6'4" so i often am the 'larger one' when rolling. The things that cause me the most problems are people who are annoying fast people with lots of changes of movement and position. i especially hate them working on speed passes of the guard etc. I have always found that smaller opponents have lots more space available for 'wriggling out' of things and a lot of focus needs placed on keeping them trapped/pinned.

I always try to start from my back and then i have to 'earn' being in top position. Once there then i can try to slow my opponent down and grind down if they are smaller but i want to earn it - not just get it because i am big. Maybe worth seeing if any of your training partners are amenable to practising this way - will do you both some good i find.

Otherwise you absolutely must avoid letting the bigger partner close space and settle onto you in a tight side control as you are then screwed tbh. Personally i prefer to hold side control and work submissions from there against someone smaller as when i move to mount they have a little more space to get out (though that might be my lack of skill)


I concur because I try to start off on my back as comfortably as possible.


Although the person in the top position can adjust to my own advancements, the more time he spends not being able to submit me lol

You're right; preventing being put in the position in the first place entirely is the wisest course of action!
still...the TD can occasionally be inevitable when you're gassed..and there you are


My response to that would still be scramble, scramble, scramble. Smaller fast people can be really annoying when they are scrambling quickly.

To the gassed point, it's the being gassed that is a large part of the issue rather than the ending up in side control etc post takedown.

Personally i found two non technique things that made a massive impact on my rolling :

1) more cardio. bigger gastank never hurts (mine is still laughningly small!)

2) Adding in hang power snatches to my lifting routine. I added these in a few years ago and notice an almost immediate improvement in hip power and explosion. Not doing at the moment since the ceiling where i lift is too low for me to do it but when i get somewhere higher i will add straight back in
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GS718Trek
Orange Belt
Orange Belt

Joined: 08 Oct 2014
Posts: 152


PostPosted: Thu Jul 07, 2022 10:22 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

My initial instinct is to always arm drag and immediately go for the back. ill usually transition to head and arm triangle choke from there and stay knee on belly if they escape. Then north south

I'd just try to put up guard as much as I could if they do manage to get away, and go from there.
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tallgeese
Black Belt
Black Belt

Joined: 04 May 2008
Posts: 6874
Location: McHenry County, IL
Styles: Brazilian Jiu Jitsu, Bujin Bugei Jutsu, Gokei Ryu Kempo Jutsu, MMA, Shootfighting, boxing, kickboxing, JKD, Pekiti Tersia Kali

PostPosted: Thu Aug 04, 2022 3:27 pm    Post subject: Re: Best advice for rolling againts a much heavier opponent Reply with quote

R5ky wrote:
What should one do while rolling against a partner whose naturally on the heavy side with a 50-60 lb weight advantage?

Due to the weight of them taking the top spot, I frequently gas out and just tap from them being on top position.
It also depends on whether I pair with them at the beginning of the rolling session. Sometimes I can hold my own, but it quickly turns into a fight for my life, and by the time we exchange partners a couple more times till the finish of class, I'm already exhausted.

Anyone have any tips based on personal experience?


This is the perennial question for grapplers everywhere. You are not alone. Youíre response to this will vary based on what youíre trying to accomplish and where youíre at in your training.

Generally speaking, put your guard to work. Open is preferable. It keeps his weight at a distance and angle that are much more manageable. Consider using the omo plata as a position to avoid his weight loading. Once youíve managed distance youíve mitigated weight. Now itís time to sweep or take back. Get out from under it if at all possible. Sub attempts are not your friend at this point.

Good luck. Keep us posted.
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