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MatsuShinshii
Black Belt
Black Belt

Joined: 15 Aug 2016
Posts: 1423
Location: Kentucky
Styles: Machimura Suidi Rokudan, Ryukyu Kenpo, Kobudo, Judo

PostPosted: Wed Mar 14, 2018 7:44 pm    Post subject: Black Belt Reply with quote

What does it mean to you?

Just a belt or something more?

To clarify before the "it's just another belt" crowd takes off, I mean Shodan through Judan. Pick a grade, any grade, your grade. What does it mean to you personally?

Is it more than just cloth or is it just another stepping stone to the next grade?

Just interested.
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Lupin1
Black Belt
Black Belt

Joined: 15 Dec 2009
Posts: 1637
Location: Naples, FL
Styles: Isshinryu

PostPosted: Thu Mar 15, 2018 5:26 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I'm proud of my black belt and the years of work it represents, but I recognize that black belt does not equal master. Black belt is like a high school diploma-- you've got a solid base and are ready for more advanced study. It's an accomplishment, but it's an accomplishment that almost anyone can achieve if they put in the time and effort. That's how I think of it.

At my school I'm currently the lowest ranking adult as a shodan (hopefully almost nidan). Every other adult there has been studying since before I was born. I think that's gone a long way in keeping me humble. I've got a black belt around my waist, but I'm still a total noob compared to the rest of them.
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Wado Heretic
Green Belt
Green Belt

Joined: 23 May 2014
Posts: 497
Location: United Kingdom, England, Shropshire
Styles: Wado-Ryu , Kobayashi Shorin-Ryu (Kodokan), RyuKyu Kobojutsu

PostPosted: Thu Mar 15, 2018 5:58 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

It helps keep my Keikogi in order.

Joking aside, to me it is a symbol of all the hard work put into earning it. However, it is also a reminder that the hard work never ends. Getting the black belt is nothing in comparison to "being" a black belt.

In terms of the ranks, I believe the ranks are important from a structural and organisation based perspective. When in that mindset, each rank is a stepping stone to greater power and responsibility, and to a degree autonomy. After all, many organisations will not allow someone the privilege of promoting others without a certain degree. I have set myself the goal of Godan before I turn 40 after all, so I do have a respect for the value of ranks in organisations.

From a more face-to-face perspective, I have met many Dan grades more senior to me who know less than me. I rarely take grades at face value any more, I respect the colour of the belt as they have obviously put the effort in to earn it, and a black belt is no small feat. However, I wait to see what they can offer before I defer to their knowledge base being superior to mine. That is, unless it is a very different art to my own, or they are making knowledge claims outside of my own realm of knowledge. For example, I am more inclined to take a 5th Dan in Brazilian Jujutsu at face value, than I am the same grade in Karate simply because I am far more confident in my knowledge of Karate than I am of BJJ.
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sensei8
KF Sensei
KF Sensei

Joined: 23 Feb 2008
Posts: 16389
Location: Las Vegas, NV
Styles: Shindokan Saitou-ryu [Shuri-te/Okinawa-te based]

PostPosted: Thu Mar 15, 2018 10:23 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

At one time, it [black belt] meant everything to me; it was the exclamation of my MA journey!! It demonstrated that all of my hard work; the blood, sweat, and tears was worth it all...AT ONE TIME.

When I was a child, I did childish things, and when I became a man, I cast away all childish things!! I stopped searching for rank when I earned my Sandan; the meaning of rank dissipated at that moment.

Sure, I was proud of my accomplishment, except one!! My Dan rankings were important to me because I earned them under Dai-Soke, and for me, to not be proud of having earned any rank, not just black belt, meant a sign of disrespect to my Dai-Soke.

I'm not proud of my Kudan because I didn't earn it, really, imho, and moreover, I didn't earn it under Dai-Soke!! What surrounds my Kudan Testing Cycle, and all that proceeded that day, makes me believe that I would've passed no matter what.

Again, I'm proud of every rank, and while I'm a Senior Dan, I'm mostly proud of my Shogo titles!! I can't earn a Shogo title because they're bestowed!! Each and everyone of them were bestowed upon me by Soke and Dai-Soke, and Shogo titles are not tested for. An exclamation point of my MA maturity, which far exceeds any Dan rank I earned. My Hanshi means more to me than my double Hachidan, and even more so than my Kudan!!





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Wastelander
KF Sensei
KF Sensei

Joined: 18 Oct 2010
Posts: 2730
Location: Phoenix, AZ
Styles: Shorin-Ryu, Shuri-Ryu, Judo, KishimotoDi

PostPosted: Thu Mar 15, 2018 1:09 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Well, black belt ranks are much more highly regarded--rightly or wrongly--in the West than they are in Japan/Okinawa. I know that most of the legitimate karateka I've met are of the opinion that your Shodan test should be a long, incredibly difficult endeavor. Almost a hazing ritual, of sorts. In this age of McDojoism and 6 year old black belts, I can understand the attraction of ensuring that a black belt "means something," but I feel like some people may have over-corrected. My Shodan test was difficult, and demanding, of course, but not as difficult or drawn out as those conducted at some other dojo I know of, despite requiring more skill/knowledge to pass.

As far as what it means, to me, I'm admittedly torn. The rank that I hold isn't particularly important to me, except in the regard that because I teach, a higher rank is a better credential, from a business perspective. Of course, the fact that my Sensei determined that I met his expectations of skill and knowledge for both my Shodan and Nidan ranks does mean a lot to me, because he had high standards. I'm also not sure how I will feel about any future ranks I earn not being done under his watch, with his signature.
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Kishimoto-Di | 2014-Present | Sensei: Ulf Karlsson
Shorin-Ryu/Shinkoten Karate | 2010-Present: Yondan, Renshi | Sensei: Richard Poage (RIP), Jeff Allred (RIP)
Shuri-Ryu | 2006-2010: Sankyu | Sensei: Joey Johnston, Joe Walker (RIP)
Judo | 2007-2010: Gokyu | Sensei: Joe Walker (RIP), Ramon Rivera (RIP), Adrian Rivera
Illinois Practical Karate | International Neoclassical Karate Kobudo Society
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strangepair03
Blue Belt
Blue Belt

Joined: 15 Dec 2004
Posts: 312
Location: New Jersey
Styles: Okinawan Shorinji Ryu Karate-Do

PostPosted: Thu Mar 15, 2018 7:24 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

For me it was a symbol that I put the time in and have a good working knowledge of the basics of my system and can now begin refining and improving my kata, basics, kobudo, etc. I do not have any students so I am still a shodan since 2007 and am happy with that. If I had students that would rightly want to be promoted up that would be different, but for me at this time higher dan levels are not needed or wanted.
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singularity6
Pre-Black Belt
Pre-Black Belt

Joined: 26 Jun 2017
Posts: 958
Location: Michigan
Styles: Jidokwan Taekwondo and Hapkido, Yoshokai Aikido, ZNIR Iaido, Kendo

PostPosted: Fri Mar 16, 2018 5:12 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

What my master instructor says:

Black belts are awarded to those who've "mastered" the basics of both Tae Kwon Do and Hap Ki Do, and demonstrated that they have the necessary maturity to know when and how to use it. The black belt also symbolized that our master instructor is confident that should the student will be able to effectively defend themselves against one unarmed attacker, should they ever need to.

That being said, our journey from white to black takes a minimum of 5 years, includes rigorous training in both TKD and HKD, self defense tactics (unarmed, knife, bat and gun, single and multiple attackers.)

To me, earning a black belt is very much like earning a bachelor's degree. It takes about the same amount of time to earn, and it's not something everyone does (unlike primary and secondary school.) In both cases, it's evidence that one has extended their knowledge substantially, but the student still has much further they can go in those directions.
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5th Geup Jidokwan Tae Kwon Do/Hap Ki Do

(Never officially tested in aikido, iaido or kendo)
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Spartacus Maximus
Black Belt
Black Belt

Joined: 01 Jun 2014
Posts: 1901

Styles: Shorin ryu

PostPosted: Fri Mar 16, 2018 8:12 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

It means that the instructor’s efforts and dedication were not wasted. It also shows that the student has made significant progress in implementing, practising and improving at what has been taught thus far and to the instructor’s satisfaction.

Most important of all, it’s value comes from trust and respect. The student awarded the belt may not realize his own progress. He may even doubt himself but he will accept his teacher’s judgment. Not just because the teacher has decades or perhaps a lifetime of training and excellence in skills; but because said teacher is and has always been honest.

The belt itself means nothing. It’s value comes from the personal sentiment attached to it and the even more personal dedication and efforts done up to that day. It really is about the training journey and endeavour. The first thing to grasping the worth of a dan grade is to stop considering black belts as goals or milestones. They are not meant to signify an end.
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sensei8
KF Sensei
KF Sensei

Joined: 23 Feb 2008
Posts: 16389
Location: Las Vegas, NV
Styles: Shindokan Saitou-ryu [Shuri-te/Okinawa-te based]

PostPosted: Fri Mar 16, 2018 11:41 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I just want to take this personal moment to bow to each one of you here because the words spoken on this thread are personal to each one of you, and the willingness of sharing it is admirable trait. Thank you, all!!



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LLLEARNER
Brown Belt
Brown Belt

Joined: 10 Feb 2016
Posts: 687
Location: Central Maine

PostPosted: Fri Mar 16, 2018 3:59 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

With my current brain damage, minimal but there, and the potential for more, I have a different perspective.

Earning one sometime in the future would mean that I am in better physical shape and note just cardio or muscular, but in movement as well. The three plane movement helps my balance. The impact of future brain damage and recovery may be minimized.

I enjoy the socialization. I don't socialize much.

I get to learn new things. I find that with my Accounting and Finance education, I need something more philosophical in my life.

I like that my daughter and I will have something to share. We have something that we can potentially have a lifetime to bond over.

A side benefit of MS is that my brain may be so damaged that the zombies won't want it.

I also find that the goals of having upcoming tournaments and gradings helps keep me motivated to eat healthier and exercise more. I have a hard time running if my goal is just to run.
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