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singularity6
Pre-Black Belt
Pre-Black Belt

Joined: 26 Jun 2017
Posts: 939
Location: Michigan
Styles: Jidokwan Taekwondo and Hapkido, Yoshokai Aikido, ZNIR Iaido, Kendo

PostPosted: Thu May 10, 2018 5:26 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

We have a student who has a few black belts. Judo, Uechi Ryu, Naganata and I think Iaido. He brings his grandson to class, who's 10, and the same rank as I am.

Our instructors treat him as a black belt (even though his knowledge of our style is somewhere around green.)
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5th Geup Jidokwan Tae Kwon Do/Hap Ki Do

(Never officially tested in aikido, iaido or kendo)
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JazzKicker
Orange Belt
Orange Belt

Joined: 07 Aug 2017
Posts: 109
Location: NJ
Styles: JKD, TSD, MMA

PostPosted: Thu May 10, 2018 2:35 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Once again my experience was confirmed.

Last week I visited a school that was part of my old organization, I talked briefly with the master instructor before a class. I just asked if he had a schedule for adult classes, and he asked about my experience. I told him, and we chatted about the people we knew, etc. He said he'd have to talk to his master (the owner of the chain), took my name & information- and I never heard back.

Then I went to my old JKD/MMA coaches new facility. He was happy to see me, showed me around, said I was welcome to come in and use the place after work if I just wanted to work out, told me he'd reinstituted JKD and CQC classes now that he had more space- so yeah, I'll go where I'm welcome and leave the politics and belts behind.
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OneKickWonder
Purple Belt
Purple Belt

Joined: 17 Feb 2018
Posts: 513

Styles: Tang soo do

PostPosted: Thu May 10, 2018 3:28 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

JazzKicker wrote:
Once again my experience was confirmed.

Last week I visited a school that was part of my old organization, I talked briefly with the master instructor before a class. I just asked if he had a schedule for adult classes, and he asked about my experience. I told him, and we chatted about the people we knew, etc. He said he'd have to talk to his master (the owner of the chain), took my name & information- and I never heard back.

Then I went to my old JKD/MMA coaches new facility. He was happy to see me, showed me around, said I was welcome to come in and use the place after work if I just wanted to work out, told me he'd reinstituted JKD and CQC classes now that he had more space- so yeah, I'll go where I'm welcome and leave the politics and belts behind.


I don't think they're all like that.

Every club I've had involvement with would welcome anyone regardless of experience, just as long as they show common courtesy and a desire to learn.

But there was one club I enquired at at they were all keen to get me in for a face to face chat, right up until I told them I had some years experience. Then they made their excuses. They didn't say no, but they did say they'd have to talk to various chiefs and organise an appointment and generally tactfully try to put me off. So I didn't go there. But plenty of others have been very welcoming.
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Spartacus Maximus
Black Belt
Black Belt

Joined: 01 Jun 2014
Posts: 1669

Styles: Shorin ryu

PostPosted: Fri May 11, 2018 7:17 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Whether or not anyone is welcomed anywhere depends largely on the attitude with which the guest comes calling. An experienced guest is no different from a complete neophyte.

Be polite, respectful and modest with an open mind. This is a universal concept and it is understood everywhere by all martial arts practitioners. In a few cases it is preferable to downplay oneís experience.
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TJ-Jitsu
Blue Belt
Blue Belt

Joined: 30 Sep 2014
Posts: 316
Location: PA
Styles: Gracie Jiu Jitsu, Muay Thai

PostPosted: Sat May 12, 2018 6:54 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I canít speak for anyone other than myself and the places Iíve been. By the same token, Iíve seen bjj guys go to judo with their blue belts on.... in quite certain there arenít blue belts in judo....

I wear a white belt in judo because thatís my rank- in judo. I hope that the belt you were wearing would be whichever tank youíve acquired in THAT style would be implied....
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MatsuShinshii
Black Belt
Black Belt

Joined: 15 Aug 2016
Posts: 1413
Location: Kentucky
Styles: Machimura Suidi Rokudan, Ryukyu Kenpo, Kobudo, Judo

PostPosted: Sun May 13, 2018 9:40 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

JazzKicker wrote:
Once again my experience was confirmed.

Last week I visited a school that was part of my old organization, I talked briefly with the master instructor before a class. I just asked if he had a schedule for adult classes, and he asked about my experience. I told him, and we chatted about the people we knew, etc. He said he'd have to talk to his master (the owner of the chain), took my name & information- and I never heard back.

Then I went to my old JKD/MMA coaches new facility. He was happy to see me, showed me around, said I was welcome to come in and use the place after work if I just wanted to work out, told me he'd reinstituted JKD and CQC classes now that he had more space- so yeah, I'll go where I'm welcome and leave the politics and belts behind.


For the life of me this makes no sense. Again all are welcome. That is not to say that they would maintain current grade but if a student from a sister school came for training they would be evaluated and place according to their skill and knowledge.

Maybe its the art and the politics that go with it but I just do not understand this mentality.

My advice... if this is prevalent within this organization I'd be looking elsewhere. There are plenty of other arts and other instructors out there that would be more than happy for you to train with them.

Having said that I must ask how you are addressing this with these instructors? I hate to condemn others without the facts.

Example; if you come off as braggadocios about your experience this can tend to turn instructors off and make them think you would be one of those students that always has something to say and always questions their teaching. Not to say you are this example but sometimes we are proud of our accomplishments and tend to put them out there and this comes out and sounds like bragging without us realizing it sounds this way.

However if you are coming to them in earnest and they reject you then you didn't need to train under them and would be better off finding a different school.

I just can't imagine this happening not just once but several times. It's mind boggling.
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The person who succeeds is not the one who holds back, fearing failure, nor the one who never fails-but the one who moves on in spite of failure.
Charles R. Swindoll
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sensei8
KF Sensei
KF Sensei

Joined: 23 Feb 2008
Posts: 14045
Location: Houston, TX
Styles: Shindokan Saitou-ryu [Shuri-te/Okinawa-te based]

PostPosted: Sun May 13, 2018 7:40 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Has anyone here ever had a visiting BB question your decision of not upholding their BB in an unprofessional manner?? How'd you deal with it??

I just politely ask them to leave; opinions vary, his/hers and/or mine. However, this is MY dojo, end of story!! I've had them get in my face, but I'm not that easily concerned. Put your hands on me, well, time to do what I do the best...give free karate lessons.



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vantheman
Orange Belt
Orange Belt

Joined: 18 Apr 2012
Posts: 249

Styles: Chinese Kempo Karate, Brazilian Jujitsu

PostPosted: Sun May 13, 2018 8:48 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

At my (kempo) school, we had a nidan in Aikido start training with us. Given that we don't rigorously divide classes by rank anymore, we allowed him to train with the black belts/upper level adults. He'd been doing martial arts for longer than most of us, so it didn't make sense to send him to the beginners' classes. Seeing that Kempo is not much of a "purebred" martial art anyway, it's not uncommon for black belts from across the country to have limited overlap in technique anyway. I believe he technically is considered a Shodan in our school, but he's more interested in training than moving up the ranks, so it doesn't make much of a difference anyhow.
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Van

Chinese Kempo Karate, Sandan
Brazilian Jujitsu, Blue Belt
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JazzKicker
Orange Belt
Orange Belt

Joined: 07 Aug 2017
Posts: 109
Location: NJ
Styles: JKD, TSD, MMA

PostPosted: Mon May 14, 2018 8:26 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I think Van's school has a good way of handling it, not making a big deal about rank and giving people a chance to fit in and train. Last fall I visited a club that had JKD classes, no problem for me to walk on and train. No belts, no problem.

The times it was a problem, it never got past the "Hey, can I come and train here? question." Certainly not a confrontation like the previous question. But it does remind me of a story from about 10 years ago.

The club I was training at was folding up, so I visited a TKD school that also offered, they said, Hapkido, with Korean masters. I talked to the GM, he told me it was $1300/yr, but we could "work something out", that he had a Hapkido master coming in a few weeks and I was welcome to come train.

So I came back in a few weeks, when they had a class scheduled, and a young black belt and the new Korean Hapkido guy were there, though not the GM. The young one said, sure, you can train, so I put on my uniform. Then they had me come in the office. They wanted me to pay 6 months in advance, plus $20 for the night, and $75 for the month. This, they said, was to "prove my commitment" . I said, well, I'm already committed, I've been doing this for years. And most schools offer a trial, and certainly don't ask you to pay for 6 months before you've even seen a class.

I was ready to leave, but they caved, and said, since you're already here and dressed, the master would like to train with you a bit. So we worked out, and I realized (and they admitted later) they were testing me. Needless to say I never went back.
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bushido_man96
KF Sensei
KF Sensei

Joined: 31 Mar 2006
Posts: 27470
Location: Hays, KS
Styles: Taekwondo, Combat Hapkido, Aikido, GRACIE

PostPosted: Mon May 14, 2018 8:05 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

TJ-Jitsu wrote:
I canít speak for anyone other than myself and the places Iíve been. By the same token, Iíve seen bjj guys go to judo with their blue belts on.... in quite certain there arenít blue belts in judo....

I wear a white belt in judo because thatís my rank- in judo. I hope that the belt you were wearing would be whichever tank youíve acquired in THAT style would be implied....


I feel like if one is just their training, and they just wear their regular uniform and belt to have the complete uniform, and they aren't necessarily pursuing rank in that school, then I think I'd be ok with it. If they would happen to decide to start trying to attain rank in that school, then it might change the situation.
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www.aikidoofnorthwestkansas.com
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