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Tobias_Reece
Brown Belt
Brown Belt

Joined: 26 May 2001
Posts: 691
Location: Leeds, England
Styles: Matayoshi Okinawawn Kobudo, Shotokan Karate

PostPosted: Tue Aug 06, 2002 11:11 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

You know this is one thing that really p***s me off.

You get big fat 5th dans who cant string two words together, never mind perform Heian Shodan, shouting at people saying "50 Press ups - come on, faster - you can do better than that!!". All this when they can't even do it themselves.

Its rediculous!! GRRRRRRRRRR
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"You Are Never Given A Dream Without Also Being Given The Power To Make It True. You May Have To Work For It, However"

Principal Kobudo Instructor & Owner
West Yorkshire Kobudo Academy
2nd Kyu (Matayoshi Okinawan Kobudo, IOKA UK)
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LeaF
Black Belt
Black Belt

Joined: 31 Jul 2002
Posts: 1012
Location: North of the 49
Styles: Goju Ryu Karate-do and Okinawan Kobudo

PostPosted: Tue Aug 06, 2002 11:14 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Oh yea I agree with you for sure, just like g95 said don't get them to do anything you haven't done yourself
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Goju Ryu Karate-do and Okinawan Kobudo, 17 Years Old 1st kyu Brown Belt in in Goju Ryu Karate-do, & Shodan in Okinawan Kobudo
Given enough time, any man may master the physical. With enough knowledge, any man may become wise. It is the true warrior who can master both....and surpass the result.

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ad
Brown Belt
Brown Belt

Joined: 22 Nov 2001
Posts: 672
Location: Birmingham, England

PostPosted: Tue Aug 06, 2002 4:13 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

one of the main heats in which our sifu teaches us that will be the hardest in achieving your black belt is doing 30 minutes of sparring, 3 minutes ten times, that could be one possibility that you could include
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koreantiger81
Blue Belt
Blue Belt

Joined: 13 Dec 2001
Posts: 283


PostPosted: Wed Aug 07, 2002 2:43 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

delete

Last edited by koreantiger81 on Wed Aug 07, 2002 2:56 am; edited 2 times in total
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koreantiger81
Blue Belt
Blue Belt

Joined: 13 Dec 2001
Posts: 283


PostPosted: Wed Aug 07, 2002 2:50 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Why are black-belt tests becoming fitness tests??? Black-belts are not invincible! Besides do all black belts have nice bodies??? Being fit will be an advantage; however, i've seen awesome martial art masters with beer bellies! Some of them even smoke!

LeaF wrote:
Doesn't it make sense that the people who want to get their blackbelts should be the ones who sweat the most after class and work the hardest in class.

Yeah, that's true leaf..I agree; however, I think they have already demonstrated hard-work and COMMITMENT for making it to their black belt test! It takes patience, hardwork, commitment and perserverance for a beginner to stick with a martial art for 4-10 years..

My point is testing their "mental control" and "physical level" is good for a black-belt test, but don't forget testing their other abilities! For a black belt test, I rather be tested for my martial arts skills and application...Perhaps creating a form/kata/pattern, developing sparring techniques or creating self-defense techniques for a black belt test, would better test my abilities and demonstrate to my instructor what I have learned from white belt all the way up to my black-belt test..... This way, I will have contributed to my martial art and mature more in my martial arts learning....
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omnifinite
Purple Belt
Purple Belt

Joined: 09 Apr 2002
Posts: 524
Location: Northern VA
Styles: Hapkido | Kempo | Jujitsu

PostPosted: Wed Aug 07, 2002 8:13 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

koreantiger81 wrote:
I think they have already demonstrated hard-work and COMMITMENT for making it to their black belt test! It takes patience, hardwork, commitment and perserverance for a beginner to stick with a martial art for 4-10 years..


I think I agree with the above. If you want to make the students strong... challenge them every step of the way from the very beginning. The person isn't much different after the test than they were the day before. They're being awarded a symbol of the skill they already possess.

So, yeah, I think the test should be somewhat tough... but only because the whole way there was tough. Mainly it should be comprehensive to make sure nothing was forgotten and nothing got sloppy. You really can't do much to improve their personal skill level on the testing day itself... they should be there already.
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BlueDragon1981
Red Belt
Red Belt

Joined: 01 Jul 2002
Posts: 779
Location: USA
Styles: Goshin Jutsu Karate, Shotokan

PostPosted: Wed Aug 07, 2002 8:22 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hmmmmmmm..........

How about a physical test first. ... Drain all there energy. Then make them do all there katas. After that self defensed tests against different things. Then full contact sparring with more than one oppanant. After that they should do there breaks (board breaks if you have them in your style for the test). After which they should know all the terminology and from the first rank to the last without skipping a beat. Not to mention a written test that would test there maturity level. Also to make them a little more nervous make them do it in front of all the black belts you have while they write things down that they did wrong. Okay and last but not least make them do all the dirty work around the dojo until they take there test about 4 months ahead of time. I think this test might be to easy though...what do you think.

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LeaF
Black Belt
Black Belt

Joined: 31 Jul 2002
Posts: 1012
Location: North of the 49
Styles: Goju Ryu Karate-do and Okinawan Kobudo

PostPosted: Wed Aug 07, 2002 8:28 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

that is true but you can "prepare" them for the test. See at my dojo they are told they are going to grade 4 months in advance and they do the stuff I mentioned before. Now in this 4 month peroid you can work them really hard and you will see a huge improvement in their capibilites so that when the grading comes they are ready and not "sloppy" that is why I think this system is better then if they are told like two in advance. It helps prepare them mentally and well they are going to get "prepared" physically whether they want to or not so that is a nice bonus too.

Quote:
I think they have already demonstrated hard-work and COMMITMENT for making it to their black belt test! It takes patience, hardwork, commitment and perserverance for a beginner to stick with a martial art for 4-10 years..


I agree with this and I don't...hmm how do I phrase this.......ok when someone gets their yellow belt they are rewarded for the time they commited and the skills their learned to get that yellow belt. Now I don't want to say that this time goes in the garbage when the grade for orange (because it doesn't ) but I believe when that person grades for orange they are being graded on their total commitment yes but also on the ablity to learn the skills need and their commitment from yellow to orange...follow me, maybe not. What I am trying to say is that someone who has traded for lets say 6 years and is a brown belt has already been rewarded for their commitment and perserverance up to that point (they've been rewarded with a brown belt) Now when someone grades for black they should not just get a black because they have been around a year or two longer they should get it because they deserve it and can demonstrate that in their test. I don't know if this makes any sense(rather difficult to explain my theory in words. Anyways the way you wrote that it sounded like there was no point in having a test at all because they have all ready shown this hard work and commitment well what I am trying to say is that I disagree but agree. I think if they have worked hard enough and shown that commitment then they should have absolutely no problem with their test because they know what to do so I don't see why they should have to prove themselves and prove that they know it in a formal manner i.e. the test.

I pity the person who has to try to read through this post to be honest I have confused myself while trying to express my thoughts good luck

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Goju Ryu Karate-do and Okinawan Kobudo, 17 Years Old 1st kyu Brown Belt in in Goju Ryu Karate-do, & Shodan in Okinawan Kobudo
Given enough time, any man may master the physical. With enough knowledge, any man may become wise. It is the true warrior who can master both....and surpass the result.

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justb
Yellow Belt
Yellow Belt

Joined: 01 Aug 2002
Posts: 28
Location: Detroit, Michigan, USA

PostPosted: Thu Aug 08, 2002 8:50 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Seems kind of silly to test pushups when it would be more appropriate to check technical knowledge.

Why is the test and rank symbolic of a "reward"? It would seem to me that rather than torture and humiliate people for an extended period of time, an intellegent curriculum would focus on evaluating their knowledge and understanding of the topics that they have integrated through training and application.

Hope this helps you come up with some ideas.

Thanks

B

www.seishinkan.com
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LeaF
Black Belt
Black Belt

Joined: 31 Jul 2002
Posts: 1012
Location: North of the 49
Styles: Goju Ryu Karate-do and Okinawan Kobudo

PostPosted: Thu Aug 08, 2002 9:15 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

oh yes absolutely from my expirence bunkai(Pratical applications of movements found in katas) Always seems to be part of a test.
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Goju Ryu Karate-do and Okinawan Kobudo, 17 Years Old 1st kyu Brown Belt in in Goju Ryu Karate-do, & Shodan in Okinawan Kobudo
Given enough time, any man may master the physical. With enough knowledge, any man may become wise. It is the true warrior who can master both....and surpass the result.

I AM CANADIAN
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