Add KarateForums.com
15 Years on Staff for DWx!
Username:    Password:
Remember Me?    
   I Lost My Password!
Post new topic   Reply to topic    KarateForums.com Forum Index -> Kung Fu, JKD, Wing Chun, Tai Chi, and Chinese Martial Arts
 See a User Guidelines violation? Press on the post.
Author Message

scohen0300
Orange Belt
Orange Belt

Joined: 09 Feb 2016
Posts: 209
Location: It varies
Styles: Matsubayashi Shorin Ryu, Tang Soo Do

PostPosted: Sat Feb 05, 2022 3:39 pm    Post subject: Can someone explain Shaolin Kung Fu? Reply with quote

I’ve never been able to figure out what exactly Shaolin consists of. I know there’s a LOT, but can someone lay out what a curriculum or syllabus might look like? Could you include names of forms? Does it consist of different styles, like the animal styles?

For example, here’s my old karate syllabus. If you could share what the equivalent of it would be for Shaolin Kung Fu, or share a source, I would really appreciate it

Kihon
- punching
- “blocking”
- kicking
Kata
- Fukyugata 1-2
- Pinan 1-5
- Naihanchi 1-3
- more advanced kata, etc
Kumite
- Yakusoku Kumite 1-7
- Applications, etc
_________________

May the force be with you.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message

bushido_man96
KF Sensei
KF Sensei

Joined: 31 Mar 2006
Posts: 29283
Location: Hays, KS
Styles: Taekwondo, Combat Hapkido, Aikido, GRACIE

PostPosted: Sat Feb 05, 2022 5:30 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

What Shaolin is now, and what it may have been before, are probably two different things. From what I understand, I think the Chinese government pretty much controls what Shaolin is now, and hence I believe who gets to accepted to learn it is limited by the government in some way.
_________________
www.haysgym.com
http://www.sunyis.com/
www.aikidoofnorthwestkansas.com
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail

scohen0300
Orange Belt
Orange Belt

Joined: 09 Feb 2016
Posts: 209
Location: It varies
Styles: Matsubayashi Shorin Ryu, Tang Soo Do

PostPosted: Sat Feb 05, 2022 6:29 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Well that’s interesting.

Do you happen to know what ANY version of Shaolin consists of? Names of styles? Names of forms? That’s more of what I’m looking for.
_________________

May the force be with you.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message

bushido_man96
KF Sensei
KF Sensei

Joined: 31 Mar 2006
Posts: 29283
Location: Hays, KS
Styles: Taekwondo, Combat Hapkido, Aikido, GRACIE

PostPosted: Mon Feb 07, 2022 9:11 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

It's not something I've done much in-depth studying on. I may have read some history at some point, but anything out there now isn't really anything I'm interested in.
_________________
www.haysgym.com
http://www.sunyis.com/
www.aikidoofnorthwestkansas.com
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail

Wado Heretic
Green Belt
Green Belt

Joined: 23 May 2014
Posts: 484
Location: United Kingdom, England, Shropshire
Styles: Wado-Ryu , Kobayashi Shorin-Ryu (Kodokan), RyuKyu Kobojutsu

PostPosted: Tue Feb 08, 2022 5:27 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I have a student who studied Shaolin Quan'fa in China, though not at the Temple, but in Henan Province. From what I can gather, Shaolin is an umbrella term for a huge amount of distinct styles and systems, which have become collected into the Shaolin Temple. You are not going to find a "Shaolin Style" equivalent to how we categorise other systems.

According to the literature, which is not propaganda, the modern Shaolin is largely a reconstruction effort. Its modern content largely follows what was identified as "Shaolin" by the Central Guoshu Institute in the 1920s, and the Northern Shaolin of the Chin Woo Athletic Association. This is because former members of those organisations were the leading force in returning martial arts practices to the Temple when it was permitted.

The only syllabus I can find of a Shaolin System is that of Ku Yu Cheung. Which admittedly strikes me as akin to the effort by Wáng Xiāngzhāi, in his creation Yiquan, to synthesise the essential aspects of the arts called Shaolin without really being THE Shaolin style.
_________________
R. Keith Williams

A Rarely Used Blog:
An Uncertain Path
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website

tatsujin
Orange Belt
Orange Belt

Joined: 12 Oct 2021
Posts: 162

Styles: Ryusei-ha Ryukyu Kempo Karate-jutsu

PostPosted: Tue Feb 08, 2022 7:13 pm    Post subject: Re: Can someone explain Shaolin Kung Fu? Reply with quote

scohen0300 wrote:
I’ve never been able to figure out what exactly Shaolin consists of. I know there’s a LOT, but can someone lay out what a curriculum or syllabus might look like? Could you include names of forms? Does it consist of different styles, like the animal styles?

For example, here’s my old karate syllabus. If you could share what the equivalent of it would be for Shaolin Kung Fu, or share a source, I would really appreciate it

Kihon
- punching
- “blocking”
- kicking
Kata
- Fukyugata 1-2
- Pinan 1-5
- Naihanchi 1-3
- more advanced kata, etc
Kumite
- Yakusoku Kumite 1-7
- Applications, etc


Assuming that you are referring to the Northern Shaolin Temple....

It would be difficult to quantify all that is and has been taught at Shaolin. In recorded history, the have been (I believe) of 1,000 arts recorded at Shaolin. Obviously, not all of them are still being taught and some of them have died out over the many years they have been around. That number is much smaller now and would consist of empty handed, weapons and qigong work (in, of course, addition to Chan Buddhism - 禅 as well as Traditional Chinese Medicine).

Shaolin seems to be a bit of an umbrella that took in most martial systems and it has even been written that Shaolin was the "mother" of all martial arts.

Often you will read or see folks making a difference in Chinese martial arts referred to as neijia (內家) or internal arts and waijia (外家) or external arts. Many define this distinction as having to do with whether or not the arts are "internal" as in the use of qi or "external" as in the use of li (physical skills or force/power). While this can be correct in specific contexts, the division really has to do with whether or not the arts are internal or external to China. The arts from Shaolin (and comprises almost all arts taught in China) are considered external as the original skills developed at Shaolin were based upon knowledge brought to China from India. Who did this is a whole other can of worms, so I will leave that one alone! LOL! Neijia, by the way, would be primarily the arts Taijiquan, Baguazhang and Xingyiquan...as well as arts that developed from them (i.e. Yiquan from Xingyiquan). Some add other arts like Bajiquan, etc. But that is another topic for discussion and debate. Basically, those are the internal (to China) based arts with direct links to Taoism.

If you are looking for specific arts taught at Shaolin, then the two oldest would probably be Luohanquan (羅漢拳) which is Arhat Fist (Arhat being in Buddhism a person who has reached a state of perfection and enlightenment) and Hongquan (洪拳) of Flood Fist/Boxing. And even that system is broken down in sub-systems.

When you say you are looking for an equivalent to the mini curriculum you posted, do you mean you are looking for something that might have directly influenced your art or are you looking for an art from Shaolin that has a similar type of break down? Maybe if you were to post more specifically as to what you are looking for, I or someone else could help you further.

Most Chinese martial arts are going to be broken down into the kinds of categories that you list. Jibengong (基本功) would be similar to kihon as those are the basic fundamental skills. They also have taolu (套路) or forms/katas. Free fighting would fall under sanda (散打) or combative methods (more along the lines of oyo combined with kumite if you will). Some have weapons included some have weapons only, so akin to kobudo. And most include some form or another of qigong or kiko (energetic work). And, all of those things are going to be style specific.

If you are looking for an art that is going to be a specific influence on your art, then you would need to look to Southern China. The arts taught there would be a more direct influence on Okinawan arts (and therefore Japanese arts). While the arts taught there may share a history with those taught at the Northern Shaolin Temple, they would still be some changes and variations. I don't know of any of the old Okinawan masters that ever made it out of Southern China and had exposure to strictly Northern based arts. Perhaps someone can correct me on that.

So, again, knowing what you are specifically looking for would be of more help I think. My knowledge and information on Chinese arts is limited mainly to the neijia or internal arts...with the exception of being a bit of a history buff and reading alot. If you can be more specific, I'd be happy to take another swing at answering you or reaching out to folks I know that are much more knowledgable.

Sorry to not be of more help to you.
_________________
For me bujutsu is not a set of techniques, but a state of the body. Once the principles are integrated, the techniques surge spontaneously because the body is capable of adapting instantaneously.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Display posts from previous:   
Post new topic   Reply to topic    KarateForums.com Forum Index -> Kung Fu, JKD, Wing Chun, Tai Chi, and Chinese Martial Arts All times are GMT - 6 Hours
Page 1 of 1
Jump to:  
You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum


< Advertising - Contact - Disclosure Policy - Staff - User Guidelines >