Chinto variations

Spartacus Maximus · Black Belt

Chinto is one of the oldest kata in Shorin ryu and is included in all styles stemming from the teachings of Matsumura Sokon and his students. Obviously it can be expected that the kata will vary from one style to another, but it has become apparent the there are variations of the kata within the same lineage.

Why would students of the same instructor do a kata differently? Personal adaptations? Within the same lineage ie: Students of Miyahira Katsuya(senior student of Chibana Chosin), the kata has either two front kicks or one leaping forward front kick.

If your lineage includes Chinto, what kicking technique do you have in the first half of the kata after pulling back your hands with crossed hands?

For a better idea and visuals please look at this link

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=8Rgxnr4zBcg

bushido_man96 · KF Sensei

I think some of those changes could come about because of the age of the instructor at the time he taught the kata to whomever. I can see a younger practitioner going with the jumping front kick, and an older one opting for not jumping and doing two front kicks in a row. Perhaps?
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Wado Heretic · Green Belt

All styles are subject to the assumptions, conceits, and preferences of the founder. This is true of how kata is performed, and why they undergo changes.

Some teachers make a number of global changes to their approach: by adding more stances or reducing the number of stances, for example, and thus all the kata they teach change according to this global change. These are usually quite easy and can be traced to an individual more often than not. Then there are are more subtle changes made to individual kata, usually because someone in the lineage felt there was a better way to perform a particular movement in a kata, and implemented said change. These are harder to trace as it could have been the senior student or assistant of the named instructor at the time, so credit is not awarded. This might sound strange, but I have seen teachers adopt useful innovations and ideas off of students. Some are gracious and give credit, but others, not so much.

Age, as mentioned, can impact how a martial art is taught by an instructor. Experience may have given them new insights and so they have made changes as time has gone by. Age may have stopped them performing the kata as they once did. Thus, the version of the kata their student learnt will have depended greatly on when they trained with the teacher.

With the above said, I have seen the kick done several ways in the same dojo. I have seen it done with the leaping front kick, two front kicks, or with a half-step to kick off the front leg. The important thing to the instructor seemed to be that there was a left kick and you ended with your left foot forward. Age and injury seemed to be the only justifications given: nothing to do with the intended application.

Chinto, being so widespread, has been subject to both significant subtle changes and global changes as it as has been transplanted from system to system. In terms of disparity in the same lineage, I would give the example of a modern system such as Ed Parker's Kempo Karate: which has a much shorter history of six decades, and whose founder has only been dead thirty years. If one looks between his Kempo Karate as it was brought to the UK in the 1960s, his Chinese Kempo, the version propagated by the Tracy Brothers, and the last version he outlined in Infinite Insights they have numerous differences in the performance of Forms one through four. I give this example as the resources to see the differences are readily available, but it is not uncharacteristic of the way even one teacher can have students take profoundly different paths because of their differing perspective of the teachings.
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R. Keith Williams

Wastelander · KF Sensei

With regard specifically to your point about the kicks in Chinto, and people in the same lineage doing it differently, I can give a direct answer; they are the same thing being done with different emphasis, and since it appears in Kusanku, as well, you can do it one way in one kata, and the other way in the other kata.

By that, I mean that a jumping front kick IS two front kicks, more or less, because you get the momentum for the jump by starting to throw the kick on one side, and then continuing with the other. Practicing both gives you more options, and more food for thought in your application. Nakazato Shugoro (another senior student of Chibana) said that in Chinto we double-kick, because in Kusanku we jump-kick, and that way we practice both variations.
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sensei8 · KF Sensei

Are Kata copyrighted?? No!! I believe that the widely practiced Kata's are of public domain, therefore anyone can practice any Kata, and no one owns Kata. The copyright would be on the video itself. Any specific performance of the Kata, not the Kata itself.

In that regards, Kata CAN be modified, if desired by whomever, whether it be a CI and/or a Governing Body and/or a practitioner and/or a group and/or etc. In Shindokan, we use/teach the Pinan series, for example, as well as many other Kata's found in Okinawa Karate, of which our Kata's weren't created by our Soke, just everything else found in Shindokan was.

I'd not ever consider to modify and/or copyright and/or trademark a Kata because who am I to do so on a training tool that has legitimate lineage and the like, which has proven effectiveness across the board.

So, yeah, modify/variate any Kata to ones heart content.

Imho!!

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bushido_man96 · KF Sensei

Modify with intent and purpose; not just to modify.
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sensei8 · KF Sensei

bushido_man96 · KF Sensei

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