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DWx
KF Sensei
KF Sensei

Joined: 17 Jan 2007
Posts: 6423
Location: UK
Styles: Tae Kwon Do & Yang family Tai Chi

PostPosted: Sun Mar 23, 2014 10:30 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

sensei8 wrote:
Luther unleashed wrote:

Ahh, but the question is... Effective for what?some people take martial arts purely for fun, or health, or to say "I DID IT"! I totally agree, but what makes I effective?

An example if I may,

First I take haidong gumdo, Korean sword (not sure if you saw the video I posted in Korean section, but you should check it out if not) it is useless without a sword, making it not effective at all to me BECAUSE it's extremely unlikely I'll ever pull out a sword for any reason! I already practice a martial art for self defense, focus, and many other benefits, BUT, sword adds an element of more focus, beauty, and strength training that builds strength in a different way then karate thus making it effective for what I want to get out go it!

Therefore, the effectiveness is in the eye of the practitioner IMHO

To the bold type above...

Effective for ones sake!!

Being a proponent of the MA because it's fun or healthy or "I did it", imho, is a waste of valuable time that could've been used for something else, other than the MA.



Doing something fun or healthy is not time well spent?
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sensei8
KF Sensei
KF Sensei

Joined: 23 Feb 2008
Posts: 15453
Location: Houston, TX
Styles: Shindokan Saitou-ryu [Shuri-te/Okinawa-te based]

PostPosted: Sun Mar 23, 2014 12:21 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

sensei8 wrote:
Luther unleashed wrote:

Ahh, but the question is... Effective for what?some people take martial arts purely for fun, or health, or to say "I DID IT"! I totally agree, but what makes I effective?

An example if I may,

First I take haidong gumdo, Korean sword (not sure if you saw the video I posted in Korean section, but you should check it out if not) it is useless without a sword, making it not effective at all to me BECAUSE it's extremely unlikely I'll ever pull out a sword for any reason! I already practice a martial art for self defense, focus, and many other benefits, BUT, sword adds an element of more focus, beauty, and strength training that builds strength in a different way then karate thus making it effective for what I want to get out go it!

Therefore, the effectiveness is in the eye of the practitioner IMHO

To the bold type above...

Effective for ones sake!!

Being a proponent of the MA because it's fun or healthy or "I did it", imho, is a waste of valuable time that could've been used for something else, other than the MA.



Doing something fun or healthy is not time well spent?
Not according to what you posted...

Quote:
Being a proponent of the MA because it's fun or healthy or "I did it", imho, is a waste of valuable time that could've been used for something else, other than the MA.

Possibly, I'm misreading it.



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Last edited by sensei8 on Thu Mar 27, 2014 2:14 pm; edited 3 times in total
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pittbullJudoka
Member of the Month
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Joined: 25 Jun 2004
Posts: 1169
Location: Tennessee
Styles: Ryu Kyu Kempo,Wrestling,Brazilian Jiu Jitsu

PostPosted: Sun Mar 23, 2014 2:43 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Right now I would lean towards Judo for the throws and takedown aspect of the art. I have a fairly decent stand up and ground game formulated from from my years in Kenpo and BJJ so I need something for in between. And amazingly I'm going to have ability to do so since the gym I'm training my BJJ at is now offering Judo taught by a pair of amazing judokas. Now I just have to get my but to gym for the classes.
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tallgeese
KF VIP

Joined: 04 May 2008
Posts: 6857
Location: McHenry County, IL
Styles: Brazilian Jiu Jitsu, Bujin Bugei Jutsu, Gokei Ryu Kempo Jutsu, MMA, Shootfighting, boxing, kickboxing, JKD, Pekiti Tersia Kali

PostPosted: Sun Mar 23, 2014 9:16 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

tallgeese wrote:
That's a great question.

It kind of depends where I'm at when I get the time to dig deep into a system again.

If it's the near future, I'd probibly check out krav pretty hard. Lots of it's movements look very similar to what we do already, but I'd like to see how it's put together, to find out what's different and how it works. I'm also very interested in their weapons training. Very modern.

If it's down the road a bit, like when I can't do the things I'm doing now as hard, It'd probibly some form of pressure point work. Probibly back to what used to be Ruy-kyu kempo (I understand they've changed the name now) since that's what most of my small joint manip. is rooted in.

That's probiblly my choices. I think the idea of a sword art (again, when I'm kind of done with the beatings thing) would be pretty cool, but I can't see myself with the traditional sense to hang in with those classes, they are pretty formal.


After seeing this thread get bumped I thought it would be cool to look back and see what I had said when the thread was initially started. That's half a decade or so now!

Clearly, things have gone a slightly different direction. I found my way into JKD and not Krav and my weapons outlet has begun to involve the FMAs instead of Japanese swordsmanship. So, wow what a difference a few years will make!
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dkdrewkellison
White Belt
White Belt

Joined: 26 Mar 2014
Posts: 5
Location: Virginia
Styles: icho yama ryu jujutsu daito ryu aiki jujutsu Gracie jiujitsu

PostPosted: Wed Mar 26, 2014 9:33 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I think i would like kenjutsu or iaijutsu. Although i dont know of any dojos in the area. I really dont know much about it in general.
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sensei8
KF Sensei
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Joined: 23 Feb 2008
Posts: 15453
Location: Houston, TX
Styles: Shindokan Saitou-ryu [Shuri-te/Okinawa-te based]

PostPosted: Thu Mar 27, 2014 2:15 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hwa Rang Do!! Something I'd train in but more than just through exchanges!



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Luther unleashed
Brown Belt
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Joined: 30 Jan 2014
Posts: 661
Location: Phoenix
Styles: A few!

PostPosted: Sun Mar 30, 2014 1:40 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

sensei8 wrote:
Luther unleashed wrote:
sensei8 wrote:
Luther unleashed wrote:
A lot of great styles mentioned. I "cross train" in haidong gumdo! I have always had a passion for karate and boxing styles but haidong gumdo is an incredible art for leg strength and focus. Also very good for upper body as we'll. haidong gumdo is Korean swordsmanship for those that don't know!

I think the important thing is IF your going to cross train in an art it should be as different as possible, IF it is going to have the maximum benefit!

However, said MA should be effective before it becomes different, imho. Otherwise, it's just different the wrong way.



Ahh, but the question is... Effective for what?some people take martial arts purely for fun, or health, or to say "I DID IT"! I totally agree, but what makes I effective?

An example if I may,

First I take haidong gumdo, Korean sword (not sure if you saw the video I posted in Korean section, but you should check it out if not) it is useless without a sword, making it not effective at all to me BECAUSE it's extremely unlikely I'll ever pull out a sword for any reason! I already practice a martial art for self defense, focus, and many other benefits, BUT, sword adds an element of more focus, beauty, and strength training that builds strength in a different way then karate thus making it effective for what I want to get out go it!

Therefore, the effectiveness is in the eye of the practitioner IMHO

To the bold type above...

Effective for ones sake!!

Being a proponent of the MA because it's fun or healthy or "I did it", imho, is a waste of valuable time that could've been used for something else, other than the MA.




Interesting, I generally agree wholeheartedly with your posts, I am taken back that you feel that for an individual to train in a martial art for fun or health, is a waist of time. You know it is the number one reason people enroll their kids, actual self defense is not the reason. Martial arts to me offer different things, as do the different martial arts I practice. Some are what I consider to be less effective, but very good for strength building, or focus, or fun... Are you suggesting that the only reason to take martial arts is self defense? Are you saying that it's the mental approach that must be one of a serious manner and strict discipline?

Help me out buddy, I really am interested in this.
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sensei8
KF Sensei
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Joined: 23 Feb 2008
Posts: 15453
Location: Houston, TX
Styles: Shindokan Saitou-ryu [Shuri-te/Okinawa-te based]

PostPosted: Sun Mar 30, 2014 1:47 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Luther unleashed wrote:
sensei8 wrote:
Luther unleashed wrote:
sensei8 wrote:
Luther unleashed wrote:
A lot of great styles mentioned. I "cross train" in haidong gumdo! I have always had a passion for karate and boxing styles but haidong gumdo is an incredible art for leg strength and focus. Also very good for upper body as we'll. haidong gumdo is Korean swordsmanship for those that don't know!

I think the important thing is IF your going to cross train in an art it should be as different as possible, IF it is going to have the maximum benefit!

However, said MA should be effective before it becomes different, imho. Otherwise, it's just different the wrong way.



Ahh, but the question is... Effective for what?some people take martial arts purely for fun, or health, or to say "I DID IT"! I totally agree, but what makes I effective?

An example if I may,

First I take haidong gumdo, Korean sword (not sure if you saw the video I posted in Korean section, but you should check it out if not) it is useless without a sword, making it not effective at all to me BECAUSE it's extremely unlikely I'll ever pull out a sword for any reason! I already practice a martial art for self defense, focus, and many other benefits, BUT, sword adds an element of more focus, beauty, and strength training that builds strength in a different way then karate thus making it effective for what I want to get out go it!

Therefore, the effectiveness is in the eye of the practitioner IMHO

To the bold type above...

Effective for ones sake!!

Being a proponent of the MA because it's fun or healthy or "I did it", imho, is a waste of valuable time that could've been used for something else, other than the MA.




Interesting, I generally agree wholeheartedly with your posts, I am taken back that you feel that for an individual to train in a martial art for fun or health, is a waist of time. You know it is the number one reason people enroll their kids, actual self defense is not the reason. Martial arts to me offer different things, as do the different martial arts I practice. Some are what I consider to be less effective, but very good for strength building, or focus, or fun... Are you suggesting that the only reason to take martial arts is self defense? Are you saying that it's the mental approach that must be one of a serious manner and strict discipline?

Help me out buddy, I really am interested in this.

Quote:
Are you suggesting that the only reason to take martial arts is self defense?

No! The SD aspect is just a small portion of the MA; a small slice of the MA pie, so to speak. Reasons for taking the MA varies across the board from practitioner to practitioner. What a practitioner is a proponent of is entirely up to said practitioner alone.

Quote:
Are you saying that it's the mental approach that must be one of a serious manner and strict discipline?

Not all the time!! There should be a comfortable mixture of both serious and strict discipline with lots of relaxed and fun times on the floor. I can never be that serious, nor can I ever be that strict in discipline, and that's because a dojo is a place of learning and laughing; I'm accused my some of my peers by having too much fun and the like, but I am who I am. I take my MA training very serious, and that allows me to relax at the most impromptu times, according to some of my peers.

Just how fun would the MA be if everyone was serious and strict? It wouldn't be, imho!!

Quote:
Effective for what? some people take martial arts purely for fun, or health, or to say "I DID IT"! I totally agree, but what makes I effective?

I suppose what got me, at the time of reading it, was the "I DID IT" part. Not everyone makes the MA their life time for whatever reasons, and I sometime think that that mindset doesn't think much about the MA, and that it's a slap in my face because I've dedicated my life to the MA. Having said that, I'm not always right and I sometimes am quite stupid in my own thinking; I was wrong in my post and in my thinking for that moment. A thought for just that moment; an emotional outburst, so to speak.

In that, I totally and wholeheartedly agree that the MA are taken for various reasons, and none of them have to be in concert with mine. I'm nothing and in that, I'm ashamed. Whether the reason is for fun or for health or to just say that they did it at one time, is purely their choice and I support them wholeheartedly. Forgive my ignorance; I was wrong!!

My own student body at my dojo, as well as the Hombu's, is a mixture of reasons for training in the MA, and if I lived what I ignorantly posted previously, well, the student body wouldn't be as large as it has been and is now; our/my eclectic mindset allows us/me to continue to grow our/mine respective student bodies.

If a prospective student says that they only want to train in the MA because they think it would be fun, because they want to improve their health through the MA, and/or to say that I just want to say one day that I did the MA, then who am I to prohibit them!?! The MA journey IS THEIRS, and it's not mine, and in that, I want to share along with them in their MA journey if they allow me too.


Quote:
Therefore, the effectiveness is in the eye of the practitioner IMHO

YES!! I wholeheartedly concur!!


::Right now, I wish I had a "Bag-over-my-big-fat-head" emoticon to place here::
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Luther unleashed
Brown Belt
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Joined: 30 Jan 2014
Posts: 661
Location: Phoenix
Styles: A few!

PostPosted: Mon Mar 31, 2014 12:53 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Sensei8, no need for a bag over your head emoticon lol! Great post and I appreciate the time you spent breaking it down. I get where your coming from, if one is passionate about somthing, it is difficult to see somebody do it just to say they did it, I get it. I mostly enjoy the feeling of a healthy relationship of my mind and body, general health, self defense AND a passion that just loves it for god knows why haha. I'm not the "to say I did it type" which is why I get your emotions surrounding it. I agree with your post about being serious, I feel there is a time to be serious and a time to screw around a bit so I can certainly appreciate that approach.

Kinda falling asleep buddy so not writing more tonight but saw you posted and didn't want to leave you hanging that all, take care!
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jaypo
Purple Belt
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Joined: 26 Apr 2012
Posts: 520

Styles: Shotokan, Shorin Ryu

PostPosted: Mon Mar 31, 2014 7:30 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I'd pick either Japanese JuJutsu or Judo.

I've been training in Karate for about 4.5 years, and I'd love to add that grappling/throwing aspect to my skillset.

We do practice some jujutsu throws, but we only scratch the surface of that!
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