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The BB of C
Black Belt
Joined: 11 Feb 2007
Posts: 1264
Location: Orlando, Florida
Styles: Kuk Sool Won, Isshin-ryu, Capoeira, Brazillian Jiu Jutsu, Judo
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 Posted: Tue May 13, 2008 5:40 pm Post subject: |
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I don't know what style you instruct, and I'm not in any way going to put it down. But to explain a point that it is possible, I will use an example of a style.
Wing Chun kung-fu was designed and proven to work for situations your student may be in. However, it does not really get into techniques that I would label as "too destructive" until into the way upper ranks. I've seen Wing Chun practicioners demolish people twice their size and walk away with the other person (ultimately) being fine.
Just an example. I don't expect you to take it seriously. |
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st0ut
White Belt
Joined: 12 May 2008
Posts: 13
Location: New England
Styles: Sholin Kenpo Karate
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| Posted: Tue May 13, 2008 7:53 pm Post subject: |
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For one I am not a sensei i am a student. that is exactly my point. if you don't teach or practice those very distructive strikes you will not be able to make the decision to use them. that decision was made in the dojo long before a conflict appeared.
In this case i see no conflict withing christanity and the Martial artist. the Martial artists mind body and spirit are one and will act accordingly. and if this is the case for Kata and forms and even tournement psort in this view martial art is totally compatible with christanity.
For self defence, comabat and the acceptance of death to yourself your opponent or bioth then in this light i see christanity as incompatible. as the spirit mand and body well be in conflict.
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KarateEd
Black Belt
Joined: 07 Feb 2007
Posts: 1020
Location: Alabama
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| Posted: Tue May 13, 2008 9:39 pm Post subject: |
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| st0ut wrote: |
If you don't teach or practice those very destructive strikes you will not be able to make the decision to use them. That decision was made in the dojo long before a conflict appeared.
In this case I see no conflict within Christianity and the Martial artist. The Martial artist's mind, body, and spirit are one and will act accordingly, and if this is the case for Kata and forms and even tournament sport, in this view, martial art is totally compatible with christanity. |
I agree
| st0ut wrote: |
| For self defense, combat and the acceptance of death to yourself your opponent or both then in this light I see Christianity as incompatible. as the spirit, mind, and body well be in conflict. |
I have to disagree here, at least with the "death to yourself" part. As Paul mentions in one of his many letters, as Christians we have cast off the "old man." This "old man" is our worldly self. We are, in a sense, already dead to this world and if we physically expire here we haven't lost anything. We are just moving into a new chapter of our existence. Furthermore, in verse 5 of the 23rd Psalm David says that the Lord "prepares a table before me in the presence of my enemies."I see a disregard for death or whatever else "my enemies" can bring upon me. Essentially, we are told not to worry about what will happen. How does this translate into MA/self defense? To me, it allows me to minimize thoughts of what might happen to my person should the need arise to defend myself or others, therefore keeping my mind as free of fetters as possible in the crucial moments of a self defense situation.
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st0ut
White Belt
Joined: 12 May 2008
Posts: 13
Location: New England
Styles: Sholin Kenpo Karate
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| Posted: Wed May 14, 2008 7:25 am Post subject: |
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| I have to disagree here, at least with the "death to yourself" part. As Paul mentions in one of his many letters, as Christians we have cast off the "old man." This "old man" is our worldly self. We are, in a sense, already dead to this world and if we physically expire here we haven't lost anything. We are just moving into a new chapter of our existence. Furthermore, in verse 5 of the 23rd Psalm David says that the Lord "prepares a table before me in the presence of my enemies."I see a disregard for death or whatever else "my enemies" can bring upon me. Essentially, we are told not to worry about what will happen. How does this translate into MA/self defense? To me, it allows me to minimize thoughts of what might happen to my person should the need arise to defend myself or others, therefore keeping my mind as free of fetters as possible in the crucial moments of a self defense situation. |
Ahh thank you karate ed that makes a bit of sence that. and in this light i have to yield my point.
but as i was rereading this i thought: There are two deaths ( in zen there are many more than 2 even if one walks away from the feild) Paul only addresses 1 (in this case his)
Was he willing to bring death to the Romans? And if not this doesnt address the morailty of the christian faith to use stike that may cause death.
Or is death that happened witout intention not covered by morality and instead an act of god or chance? i.e. you sweep the oppennt and in his fall he falls on his knife.
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KarateEd
Black Belt
Joined: 07 Feb 2007
Posts: 1020
Location: Alabama
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| Posted: Fri May 16, 2008 10:25 am Post subject: |
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In Ecclesiastes 3:1-8 it says that there is a time for everything, such as a time for war and a time for peace, a time to kill and a time to heal.
I think that the morality of harming someone else is determined by one's motivation. In the example you mentioned, a person sweeps an attacker's leg and the attacker falls on his knife and suffers a mortal wound. Was the sweep intended to kill the attacker in such a manner? No, probably not. It was an accident. The defender is only guilty of defending himself and I do not see this as immoral behavior. This whole scenario would not have taken place had the attacker not given into the selfish and immoral desire to harm someone else.
Would you say that the Allies during WWII acted immorally or against the teachings of Christianity? They did cause a number of deaths and acted aggressively once the decision was made to go to war.
As for Paul and "bringing death to the Romans" I would argue that it was not his "talent" (or purpose) to do such. His talent was to instruct early Christians in how to be better Christians. The Romans were doing a pretty good job of destroying themselves through decadent ways of living and improper ways of running their empire.
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st0ut
White Belt
Joined: 12 May 2008
Posts: 13
Location: New England
Styles: Sholin Kenpo Karate
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| Posted: Fri May 16, 2008 10:34 am Post subject: |
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I see your points. and i can see how you integerate you matrial arts into your belifes.
I just hope how you can understand how why i was questioning it.
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