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ShotosChaos
White Belt
White Belt

Joined: 28 Jul 2003
Posts: 6
Location: Gilbert, WV
Styles: Shotokan

PostPosted: Thu Aug 14, 2003 8:43 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Great article, this helped answer a few questions that I had. I'd never really thought about bowing or meditating as being religious, just as gestures of respect or focusing your energy to perform better. I'm a Christian but never bring my beliefs on people in class, and I believe that knowing the ways of self defense is alright as long as you don't intend to hurt someone with what you learn.
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ninjanurse
KF VIP

Joined: 13 Feb 2003
Posts: 6154
Location: Upstate NY
Styles: TKD;Shotokan;JuJitsu;Tai Ji

PostPosted: Fri Aug 15, 2003 8:47 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Great article! It really is all about what is in your heart not how legalistic you can be about the "rules" of Chritianity.


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Tae Kwon Do,Shotokan,Ju Jitsu,Modern Arnis
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kchenault
Black Belt
Black Belt

Joined: 11 Sep 2002
Posts: 1050
Location: Ottawa, KS USA
Styles: TKD, little Hap Ki Do, Target Focus Training

PostPosted: Fri Aug 15, 2003 8:58 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thanks to all who have read this article. Thanks especially to those who have commented. It means alot to me.
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TFT - It does a body good!
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pmh1nic
Yellow Belt
Yellow Belt

Joined: 28 May 2003
Posts: 76
Location: Long Island, NY
Styles: Jiu-Jitsu

PostPosted: Fri Aug 15, 2003 12:59 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I always understood Christ's admonition to turn the other cheek as an instruction not to retaliate when insulted by returning an insult. Jesus specifically says that if someone strikes you on the "right" cheek to turn the other cheek. For a right-hand person to strike my right cheek would require a backhand strike or slap not meant so much to cause physical harm but intended to insult.
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Lamonte
White Belt
White Belt

Joined: 12 Aug 2003
Posts: 7

Styles: Tae Kwon Do

PostPosted: Fri Aug 15, 2003 1:39 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Ken,
Good article! I like your question/answer style and the easy-going manner in which you write. Under your meditation question, what some call meditation is actually visualization as you pointed out. Also meditation is not exclusively an eastern religious practice, there are distinct Christian meditation techniques in the Christian tradition.

There are many Christian MA associations all over the USA - too many to mention. The dojo I attend is essentially a Christian TKD because of the instructors and the parent organization. Some well-known people in MA are Christian, such as Chuck Norris:

http://www.connectionmagazine.org/archives_old/archives/2000/sept2000/newnorris.htm

and Keith Yates, 10th Dan in TKD and well-published MA writer:

http://www.a-kato.org/newsarticle.html

BTW Keith Yates has a masters degree from Dallas Theological Seminary and wrote his thesis on "The Dymystification of Ki."

Then there are many ministers, pastors or priests who also have Black belts in various MA. Charles Bouton is 9th Dan in Okinawan, 9th Dan in TKD, 9th Dan in Jujitsu, 3rd Dan in Aikido - and he is a Greek Orthodox Priest.

Here also is an interesting article on the martial arts from a Christian apologetics organization called Christian Research Institute (CRI):

http://www.equip.org/journal/contents.asp?Volume=61


Lamonte
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SaiFightsMS
KF VIP

Joined: 28 Oct 2001
Posts: 6397
Location: Ohio
Styles: Shotokan, Shorin Ryu, Shi-to Ryu

PostPosted: Fri Aug 15, 2003 7:30 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Nice work.
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shanemm
Yellow Belt
Yellow Belt

Joined: 22 Jul 2003
Posts: 97


PostPosted: Sat Aug 16, 2003 8:36 am    Post subject: Great Article Reply with quote

People who complain about bowing, meditation, etc. in martial arts I think of the same way I think of people who protest movies...don't you have something better to do ? Seriously, you don't see people protesting horror books or films with spirits and ghosts in them but people will waiste their time going out and protesting a kid's film (Harry Potter) or martial arts that teach respect and gentleness in living as well as to defend yourself if you absolutely have to...please . Great article and here's a part of another article on Judo etiquette from judoinfo.com:

Bowing
Through very specific customs an orderly, functional and efficient method of conduct has been laid down for use in all Dojo. One of the very first items of etiquette which the Deshi (student) must learn is when they enter or leave any Dojo, they must perform a Ritsu Rei (standing bow) in and out of the Dojo. This Rei is not just a physical thing to do, but is also mentally done. By this I mean that when entering the Dojo each Deshi (student) clears his or her mind of all evil and negative thoughts, and feels good about themselves with the good thoughts in mind to be a better person for what they are about to learn, or what they have learned at the Dojo before leaving.

The second time that they are required to Rei is when they are about to enter or leave the mat area. Also at this time their minds should be clean and fresh with desire to learn and to become at ease with themselves.

The third time they Rei is before and after working out with a partner. This is done with much respect as you are asking your training partner for the pleasure of working out with you, also you are saying I come with a clean mind, and have no intention of hurting you; in the event I or you should suffer injury, no ill feelings shall exist between us.

I don't think Christianity and Tai Kwon Do (as well as Judo in my case) counter eachother's beliefs. On the contrary I think they compliment eachother nicely both teaching respect and kindness over violence but still being able to defend yourself if need be. Once again great and very true article!
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Red J
Black Belt
Black Belt

Joined: 11 Aug 2002
Posts: 2278
Location: WPB, FL
Styles: Shaolin Kempo Sandan

PostPosted: Sun Aug 17, 2003 12:20 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Good article Ken. I always saw bowing as a way to show respect or to greet someone. According to a quick internet search on Japenese customs, it is on a simular status as a handshake. I don't see it as any different in MAs. I think you made a great point that your beliefs, whether Christian or other, most likely will not be compromised in the pursuit of most MAs.
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Kamidake
Orange Belt
Orange Belt

Joined: 13 Apr 2003
Posts: 155
Location: U. S. A.

PostPosted: Sun Aug 17, 2003 1:31 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I think Christians who are afraid of innocuous things like bowing or Harry Potter or trick-or-treat are falling victim to Satan. Perfect love is supposed to CAST OUT fear, not make you afraid of everything you see!
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btroadman
Yellow Belt
Yellow Belt

Joined: 08 Jul 2003
Posts: 61
Location: Florida
Styles: TaeKwonDo, Kickboxing

PostPosted: Sun Aug 17, 2003 3:54 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Martial Arts is one thing, but books based on Witches and Warlocks, and Holidays created by Pagans is a little different.
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