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JR 137
Black Belt
Joined: 10 May 2015
Posts: 2442
Location: In the dojo
Styles: Seido Juku
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 Posted: Wed Sep 12, 2018 8:33 pm Post subject: |
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| Spartacus Maximus wrote: |
A kata called Kintaro definitely sounds like a joke. That would be akin to calling a kata “robin hood” or something similar. Kintaro is a character from popular Japanese folklore. Unless of course the name is a corruption or bastardized distortion of an original kata name.
Mainstream kata lists from most karate schools are quite easily found online. Even Wikipedia has a very complete list of karate kata included in several styles. All karate has its roots in Shuri(shorin ryu line) or Naha(goju ryu line). Only a few exceptions exist such as uechi ryu and styles with mixed roots.
All styles stemming from shorin ryu such as shotokan and off-shoots include the Pinan kata and the naihanchi. The Naha styles all share sanchin and perhaps one other. |
Kintaro is also a character from the Mortal Kombat series video games. |
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Spartacus Maximus
Black Belt
Joined: 01 Jun 2014
Posts: 1902
Styles: Shorin ryu
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| Posted: Thu Sep 13, 2018 1:16 am Post subject: |
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| The kata Seiunchin is typical of goju ryu lineages and their offshoots. It isn’t included in any of the other schools classified as Naha-te such as Uechi ryu, Toon-ryu(very rare, possibly extinct),Ryuei-ryu or Kojo-ryu(very rare in Okinawa) |
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JR 137
Black Belt
Joined: 10 May 2015
Posts: 2442
Location: In the dojo
Styles: Seido Juku
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| Posted: Thu Sep 13, 2018 4:39 am Post subject: |
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| Spartacus Maximus wrote: |
| The kata Seiunchin is typical of goju ryu lineages and their offshoots. It isn’t included in any of the other schools classified as Naha-te such as Uechi ryu, Toon-ryu(very rare, possibly extinct),Ryuei-ryu or Kojo-ryu(very rare in Okinawa) |
To’on Ryu is still around. It was founded by one of Kanryo Higashionna’s students who I believe trained alongside Miyagi. At least equal in rank to Miyagi at the time, but quite possibly Miyagi’s senior. Not that they held rank like today, it you know what I mean.
If Higashionna knew Seiunchin at the time, I’d be willing to bet To’on Ryu’s founder was taught it and he passed it along. Most sources I’ve seen state Higashionna taught Miyagi Seiunchin, rather than Miyagi creating it or learning it after Higashionna’s death. Miyagi learned and/or developed a few kata after Higashionna’s death. I don’t believe Seiunchin was one of them. I’m also lead to believe Seiunchin is one of the oldest karate kata. |
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Spartacus Maximus
Black Belt
Joined: 01 Jun 2014
Posts: 1902
Styles: Shorin ryu
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| Posted: Thu Sep 13, 2018 6:42 am Post subject: |
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According to contemporary sources Juhatsu Kyoda and Miyagi began training under Higashionna only a very short time apart. Kyoda was only a very short time ahead of Miyagi. Maybe just a month or so, and later Miyagi was followed by Kenwa Mabuni.
Kyoda’s kata, which number only six (Sanchin, Sesan, Sanseru, Pechurin, Jion, & Nepai) does not include Seiunchin. If he did learn it, he didn’t pass it on. He was also known to have trained under several other teachers including Yabu(Shuri-te student of both Matsumura and Itosu). |
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JR 137
Black Belt
Joined: 10 May 2015
Posts: 2442
Location: In the dojo
Styles: Seido Juku
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| Posted: Thu Sep 13, 2018 7:02 am Post subject: |
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| Spartacus Maximus wrote: |
According to contemporary sources Juhatsu Kyoda and Miyagi began training under Higashionna only a very short time apart. Kyoda was only a very short time ahead of Miyagi. Maybe just a month or so, and later Miyagi was followed by Kenwa Mabuni.
Kyoda’s kata, which number only six (Sanchin, Sesan, Sanseru, Pechurin, Jion, & Nepai) does not include Seiunchin. If he did learn it, he didn’t pass it on. He was also known to have trained under several other teachers including Yabu(Shuri-te student of both Matsumura and Itosu). |
Interesting |
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LastKing
Yellow Belt
Joined: 07 May 2015
Posts: 75
Styles: Freestyle karate, kickboxing, tai chi
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| Posted: Sat Sep 15, 2018 9:13 am Post subject: |
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Just a quick one while I've got time.
Thanks guys for the information.
"Freestyle" as I understand it means it's a style which is routed in traditional karate, but just enough to keep it within an organisation.
Ours is the AMAUK.
They don't have a set syllabus as they cater for martial arts as a whole rather than just karate.
I was told by our previous sensai that, our kata syllabus is rooted in Shotokan and all feature zen stance. We also practice most kihon in zen stance. Our previous sensei was always highly critical of Shotokan, but said if we didn;t keep some, we would lose our affiliation to the AMAUK.
Sorry for the short post, but incredibly busy at the moment and only able to get on line sporadically.
Cheers
Last edited by LastKing on Tue Oct 01, 2019 1:44 am; edited 1 time in total |
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Spartacus Maximus
Black Belt
Joined: 01 Jun 2014
Posts: 1902
Styles: Shorin ryu
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| Posted: Sat Sep 15, 2018 7:17 pm Post subject: |
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| It isn’t very clear what the intention. What exactly would be the replacement or change? If the present curriculum is derived from shotokan, changing to official shotokan kata might be a logical choice. It would definitely be easier than learning a entire new system or piecing together a patchwork of kata from different sources. |
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LastKing
Yellow Belt
Joined: 07 May 2015
Posts: 75
Styles: Freestyle karate, kickboxing, tai chi
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| Posted: Sun Sep 16, 2018 12:51 am Post subject: |
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I'm thinking shotokan. I live in rural location, so kids tend to move away - university, work etc..
I don't want to disrespect our past sensai by saying all the kata are these strange works of fiction. I'm assuming they are what he was taught, and he has chosen to keep them because they look interesting and play to the strengths of our syllabus. But wonder about teaching a couple of original kata as an extra, so the kids have something to carry over.
Last edited by LastKing on Tue Oct 01, 2019 1:47 am; edited 1 time in total |
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Spartacus Maximus
Black Belt
Joined: 01 Jun 2014
Posts: 1902
Styles: Shorin ryu
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| Posted: Sun Sep 16, 2018 5:52 am Post subject: |
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If shotokan is the definitive choice for kata, the best way to be certain to have kata shared by most shotokan schools would be to get kata directly at the source. Consider finding someone who trains at a dojo under the main shotokan associations. The JKA(Japan karate Association), for instance.
Compare their standard kata with those of other large shotokan organizations and that would give a very good idea of what is common for shotokan in most shotokan dojo worldwide. |
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LastKing
Yellow Belt
Joined: 07 May 2015
Posts: 75
Styles: Freestyle karate, kickboxing, tai chi
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| Posted: Mon Sep 17, 2018 2:12 am Post subject: |
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We live in a rural location where most of the martial arts schools are kickboxing and sports karate. There are a couple of pure karate clubs - one a mix of shotokan and wado ryu and another which I can't remember the style of, but it's not shotokan.
THinking about it, however, I do know someone who got his blackbelt in shotokan. He trained at our dojo for a while. I have his number somewhere. I'll give him a ring.
Thanks for the prompt.
Last edited by LastKing on Tue Oct 01, 2019 1:48 am; edited 1 time in total |
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on the post.
