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schleeb
White Belt
White Belt

Joined: 06 May 2016
Posts: 1


PostPosted: Fri May 06, 2016 2:34 pm    Post subject: Competing with Folk Style wrestlers Reply with quote

OK, I just need an honest opinion. I have an exchange student that will be arriving from Europe this summer. He will be attending the local (4A) high school (1440 kids in 9-12). He wants to do sports. Well football is out... knows nothing about football. Basketball... nope Baseball... hardly. This pretty much leaves him with Folk Style wrestling. He has 9 years of karate experience and is currently an instructor for younger kids. The question is... would he even have a fighting chance competing in Folk Style wrestling? It is certainly much more "hands on" than karate. I would like a learned opinion on well karate skills would translate into success in the Folk Style wrestling world? Or, would he be wasting his time?
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sensei8
KF Sensei
KF Sensei

Joined: 23 Feb 2008
Posts: 15454
Location: Houston, TX
Styles: Shindokan Saitou-ryu [Shuri-te/Okinawa-te based]

PostPosted: Fri May 06, 2016 3:25 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Welcome to KF, schleeb; glad that you're here!!

Sure, why not?!! I believe that anything learnt from a qualified instructor is beneficial to the student! Wrestling, generally, means that ground skills will be learnt, and in the world of stand-up Karate styles, it would improve ones MA betterment across the board.

A waste of time? That's up to the individual alone to determine, but only in time.

Like any competitor...that student will have the same chances as any other competitor...any other student...depending on the politics of the tournament. Rules are to be followed, and seeing that it's wrestling, one might not be able to throw a roundhouse kick, but only techniques allowed by the tournament. Chances? That's to be determined, as well!!

Karate skills that would translate into this type of wrestling, or any wrestling for that fact, might be more with Tai Sabaki and the like, basic blocks/deflects, and things like that. However, a Karateka with some experience can adapt quite well because body mechanics are just that, and not some mystery that's either allowed or not allowed. Basic Karate techniques fit quite well with wrestling, but the Karate attacks of punching, strikes, and kicks well be quite limited in many wrestling competitions.

But far and away from competition...well...all levels of Karate fit quite well with wrestling because, nothing ventured is nothing gained. So, do whatever one believes will work!!

Good luck, keep us updated, and have fun.



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JR 137
KF Sempai
KF Sempai

Joined: 10 May 2015
Posts: 2442
Location: In the dojo
Styles: Seido Juku

PostPosted: Fri May 06, 2016 7:44 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I wrestled and coached wrestling. As sensei8 said, waste of time is in the eye of the beholder. Wrestling is a highly skilled sport, and success doesn't come very quickly for 99% of the people. And because it's not a team sport in the sense that you're on the mat alone against an opponent, there's no place to hide and there's no place to sit back and watch your teammates play and cover your mistakes while you figure things out. All eyes are constantly on you, and you can't pass the ball when you get nervous. Some thrive in that, others fold.

I've had a lot of new wrestlers come from different sports (and several from karate and TKD). A good athlete will pick up on it quicker. Other than that, there's no distinct advantage. The ones who are at an advantage in starting wrestling IMO are judoka/grappling MAists and football linemen. Those athletes typically have a very good understanding of pushing and pulling. They have a wrestling sense of balance. It's not the same as balancing while throwing a kick or punch, it's balancing when you're body to body; knowing when to lean on someone, push them, or when and where to bend and let their own weight help throw them. Those same principles apply while on the mat for nstead of standing, but that's harder to put into words. Great wrestlers have great hips.

I say try it. Even if he has very little success in the wins-losses area, it'll make him a better karateka. The biggest thing a beginning wrestler needs IMO is mental toughness. Ask any multi sport athlete who's wrestled what's the toughest/most difficult sport, and they'll pretty much all tell you wrestling, hands down. So many "tough guys" don't come back the second day. The ones I respect said "sorry, this sport just isn't for me." If getting thrown around and forced onto their back doesn't get them, the conditioning usually does.

Sorry... I love the sport and miss it a lot. There's something about the intensity and that exhausted feeling afterwards that I haven't gotten anywhere else.
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Nevinyrral
Blue Belt
Blue Belt

Joined: 16 Jul 2010
Posts: 275
Location: Poland
Styles: Karate

PostPosted: Mon May 09, 2016 4:05 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

It's always good to learn something new. And even if he won't stand a chance against trained wrestlers I think he would still have some fun.
On the other hand if you say he already teaches, why not make him teach karate classes in your school for the duration of his stay(of course after asking the teachers and principal etc.).
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MAfreak
Yellow Belt
Yellow Belt

Joined: 01 Feb 2016
Posts: 96
Location: Germany

PostPosted: Tue May 10, 2016 2:33 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

there are different karate styles, many include grappling so he should be familiar with some grips and throws.
and if not... even better! it will make him a better rounded martial artist.
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ShoriKid
Pre-Black Belt
Pre-Black Belt

Joined: 14 Dec 2007
Posts: 900

Styles: Matsubyashi-Ryu, Okinawan Kempo, wrestling, bits of BJJ

PostPosted: Tue May 10, 2016 5:08 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

JR 137 wrote:
...I say try it. Even if he has very little success in the wins-losses area, it'll make him a better karateka. The biggest thing a beginning wrestler needs IMO is mental toughness. Ask any multi sport athlete who's wrestled what's the toughest/most difficult sport, and they'll pretty much all tell you wrestling, hands down. So many "tough guys" don't come back the second day. The ones I respect said "sorry, this sport just isn't for me." If getting thrown around and forced onto their back doesn't get them, the conditioning usually does.

Sorry... I love the sport and miss it a lot. There's something about the intensity and that exhausted feeling afterwards that I haven't gotten anywhere else.


This, all day long. Contrary to what some people thing, there is a great deal of technique in wrestling. It isn't just muscle and power. So, when facing kids who've been in the wrestling room since elementary school, this exchange student will be behind the curve. However, if he can last the season, he will come out of it with a bit of mental conditioning and fortitude that most karateka just don't exhibit. The long term people, yes, because they've been there for years and have that natural gift. Wrestling gives you that gift, or crushes you trying.

For his actual technique, he will go back to karate with a better ground defense, take down defense and understanding of hands on, hard, standing grappling. Putting him off his feet will be harder, by far. Keeping him there, for most people, much harder to do.

And I too miss wrestling. I only got a few years in since the team was brand new, but I did relatively well and appreciate every minute of every practice I suffered through.
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sensei8
KF Sensei
KF Sensei

Joined: 23 Feb 2008
Posts: 15454
Location: Houston, TX
Styles: Shindokan Saitou-ryu [Shuri-te/Okinawa-te based]

PostPosted: Tue May 10, 2016 1:55 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I mean, after all, the possibility of ending up on the ground is always there, and if so, best to be prepared should it occur!!



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JR 137
KF Sempai
KF Sempai

Joined: 10 May 2015
Posts: 2442
Location: In the dojo
Styles: Seido Juku

PostPosted: Tue May 10, 2016 2:52 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

sensei8 wrote:
I mean, after all, the possibility of ending up on the ground is always there, and if so, best to be prepared should it occur!!




I think the biggest benefit is the pushing and pulling aspect of it. A ton of fights start out this way. Knowing how to stand your ground and how to let someone push in order to throw them or simply get them off of you.

The ground game is important, but wrestling doesn't have the submission and chokes like Judo/BJJ/JJJ have. It also teaches you to expose your back to your opponent while going down rather than keep your back on the ground. A wrestler wants to fall forward onto their hands and knees/stomach rather than fall onto their back and pull an opponent onto them when they know it's appropriate.

However, all's not lost... It'll teach how to avoid going down to begin with, and how to get off the ground.
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bushido_man96
KF Sensei
KF Sensei

Joined: 31 Mar 2006
Posts: 28975
Location: Hays, KS
Styles: Taekwondo, Combat Hapkido, Aikido, GRACIE

PostPosted: Thu May 19, 2016 12:50 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Its not likely that too many of his Karate skill will translate to Folk Style Wrestling. However, he will understand what it means to work on technique, and should have some decent conditioning before he starts up. Even if he's done some tuite style joint locking or the like, Folk Wrestling is still a whole different ball game.

With that said, I'd say he should go for it. He'll learn lots of valuable skills that, in my opinion, would blend really well with his Karate skills. He may not make a varsity squad, but there are plenty of opportunities for junior varsity competition, and he'll probably see marked improvement over the course of his time in the style.

I'm biased, though. Both my boys do it, and I love what it gives them.
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