Conditioning dilemma

Spartacus Maximus · Black Belt

Training the limbs and hands is an integral part of Okinawan Karate and a pillar of traditional training. Although most people who train have had some experience with it, few continue to do it regularly. Especially using the makiwara or other types of striking post/board.

The reason why is mostly that people are worried about either injuries or the attention brought on by the grim appearance of bruised, badly skinned or calloused hands.

Personally, the dilemma is concerned with the appearance of hands. The first reason is because making a living requires dealing with people, doing mostly clerical work. These people might be disgusted, worried or repelled by "makiwara hands". This could affect the work environment and interfere with work duties.

Second to that but of less important, is keeping training private, almost secret. At the moment, nobody knows except very close friends and family. It is never mentioned or discussed with anyone. Having to explain things to people who cannot and would not understand would be tiresome, indeed.

What would you do in this situation and why?

Tempest · Green Belt

First, I would STOP doing Makiwara training with your hands regularly.

You WILL wind up with long term joint damage if you are doing it hard enough to leave that kind of bruising and damage to your hands.

FAR better for your technique to work a heavy bag and focus mitts with proper, at least tape, if not gloves on your hands.

A LOT of the reason people don't do that training any more is not because of how it makes you look, it is because it is DAMAGING to you and does NOT provide any real benefit that cannot be gained from other methods that are less damaging.

People do a LOT of training regularly that leave them looking far worse than a few bruises and scuffs on the hands, and I did JOBS for a while that did worse, but I am not going to deliberately damage my self for no rational reason.

All of that said, if you want to do it every once in a while, that is fine, it can be cool to change up a training routine every so often, just don't get caught up in it.
Contrary to what seems to be a popular opinion, you do NOT need to 'Condition your hands' to hit hard or to absorb that shock of hitting something hard, and NO amount of conditioning will prevent damage to your hands if you hit someone full force on a bone with your fist.

To hit hard, you need body mechanics and alignment, putting your whole body in to the strike, to avoid damage you either hit them with a resilient part of your body, or you land the strike NOT on a bone.
All of this requires LOT's of reps, WAY more reps than you can do on a makiwara. That is why focus mitts and bags work so well, you can do an INSANE number of reps, getting the mechanics and body movement flawless if working under a good coach.

Now, as to this idea of keeping it secret... Look you do what you want, but people only really keep secrets for one of 2 reasons, shame or consequences. So which is it for you?
People NEVER understand a warriors training, but that does not mean it is "private". It means that you are choosing to do TODAY what other's won't, so TOMORROW you can do what they can't. You should be proud of that. You need not explain to everyone, or advertise it, if you don't wish to, but if someone asks, for god's sakes tell them, so that maybe you will have found one other who will also make that sacrifice.
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Dani_001 · Orange Belt

Chong Li once said: "Very good. But brick, not hit back!"

Maybe if U still use a focal point that is softer, it will help.
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Wastelander · KF Sensei

I use the makiwara pretty regularly, and still keep my knuckles from looking gnarly. I do bruise, of course, but in my experience most people don't bring it up. I also don't keep my training private, so I'm pretty open about it if they do.
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JR 137 · Black Belt

sensei8 · KF Sensei

I pay no attention to what anyone might think and/or say regarding this.

Simply, it's none of their business!! I'll continue to beat the crud out of the Makiwara and the like up to the very moment that I can't. It's my journey, and not theirs, and their assumptions aren't wanted nor are they needed nor are they welcomed. I can no longer stop training in any fashion I've chosen, then I can stop breathing; MA training of all types are the very fiber of my being, past, present, and future.

As MAists, as individuals, we don't need anyone to approve our choices, including how we might or might not choose how we train in the MA!!

Like Wastelander, I train the Makiwara, and have for well over 4 decades, and my hands aren't gnarly either, and I beat the tar out of a Makiwara, so much so that my Makiwara is a stout piece of landscaping board, and my hands aren't even close to what Higaonna Sensei's look like. Higaonna Sensei trains in the manner that he's accustom to because he wants to train that way, and he's not even worrying about what others might or might not think; he just trains!!

I'm quite sure that Higaonna Sensei won't feel a darn thing whatever and whomever he hits, but what I'm pretty sure of, is that whatever, and especially whomever, will feel his hits most assuredly.

That's what's on my mind...God...family...training...teaching...!! And not what others might think about me!!

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**Proof is on the floor!!!

Dani_001 · Orange Belt

sensei8 · KF Sensei

Spartacus Maximus · Black Belt

Hitting a makiwara or other types of striking post will leave obvious visible marks if done on a regular basis, even under the best circumstances where one does it correctly.

The dilemma is not about using the makiwara, but whether or not getting back to doing it is the right decision. Nowadays it is just once in a while at the dojo, but until a year or so ago it was every other day. It was never to the point of making a gnarly nasty pulp, but it did result in regulary skinned, spots and prominent callouses. Now those are gone, but there is still some faint marks.

I suppose those who do not teach martial arts for a living and have the sort of occupation that involves working with people might have a different perspective.

On a personal note, karate is something I keep private precisely because discussing or explaining it to people would bring nothing good in my experience. This is not to say it never happens, just that I refuse to talk about it unless whoever it is has explicitly expressed an interest.

Normally what others think is irrelevant, but in this case it could have unwanted negative consequences on making a living if people in the working environment are intimidated or repelled by my appearance.

Imagine a school teacher, a public servant or other "people work' person with hands like Morio Higaonna. Do you think it might give such an individual a hard time?

MatsuShinshii · Black Belt

I have been using a Makiwara for over three decades and as of yet have no ill site effects from its use.

It really depends on how you were taught to use it. If you started out hitting it as hard as you could possibly hit it, then yes you probably damaged the joints, knuckles, bones and ligaments. If you look at it as a progression and start out slow, concentrating on proper technique and slowly build up then I feel, based on my experience, that it is safer than some think.

I use a heavy bag and have no problem with it. However if you are wearing padded gloves and hitting a somewhat padded surface, the pads take all of the impact. What exactly are you conditioning? Focus mitts are great for learning to follow and hit the target but conditioning? No. For one they are heavily padded and for two the arm of the holder takes all of the energy.

And I do not have calluses on my knuckles and hit it as hard as I can. It's the technique involved in using it. If you are twisting your knuckles against the leather, cotton rope, sisal rope, etc. after impact then it is akin to rubbing them on sand paper. I am not saying there is anything wrong with this method, in fact a large majority of Karateka utilize this or other methods to purposely develop calluses as a cushion/protection for the knuckles. This was not the way I was taught. Both methods are fine. However as Wastelander pointed out you will show signs of bruising from time to time. My first two knuckles are darker than the rest of my hand so it does show but oddly I've never been asked about them. If I had huge calluses I would imagine I would.

It just depends on your methods, progression and goals. However as I stated before I see nothing wrong with utilizing the Makiwara at least four times per week. I do and my knuckles and other weapons are not an issue other than a little arthritis in my knees due to surgery.
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The person who succeeds is not the one who holds back, fearing failure, nor the one who never fails-but the one who moves on in spite of failure.
Charles R. Swindoll

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