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gzk
Blue Belt
Joined: 02 Feb 2007
Posts: 308
Styles: Shootfighting, BJJ
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 Posted: Mon Jul 02, 2007 3:57 pm Post subject: Dana White: Wyatt Earp of MMA? |
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That's what Zuffa would like to see him as. Whenever I see any promo material, news story, or anything else that involves a summary of the UFC's history, it portrays the UFC from 1993 to 2001 as some wild, anarchic circus. Then Dana White came in and cleaned up, and now it's highly respectable. Art Davie and Rorion Gracie barely, if ever, rate a mention. I mean, they only created the UFC - something I've seen Dana White credited for, actually. And while I agree that the organization is better now, and quality of fighters is better, some of my favourite fights and fighters were in the pre-Zuffa UFC. We will never see anything like Gracie vs Severn again, where the little guy gave up huge weight and reach disadvantages, yet won from the bottom with a submission. Nor Rhodes vs Ettish, where we saw the utter destruction of a guy unprepared for (almost) no holds barred fighting and thus learned to question the value of belt ranks. But oh no, they'd have you believe that was all disorganized "spectacle".
Anyone else noticed this lack of respect for the Semaphore-era UFC?
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Battling biomechanical dyslexia since 2007 |
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G95champ
Black Belt
Joined: 29 Mar 2002
Posts: 3116
Location: Gilbert WV, USA
Styles: Shotokan Karate (FSKA)
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| Posted: Mon Jul 02, 2007 8:38 pm Post subject: |
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You won't see a Gracie vs Severan again because the BJJ secret is out. In the early 90's when the UFC started most MMA ment kickboxing / TKD and no one knew how to go to the ground much less WANTED to go to the ground. Gracie got out of the UFC not because the rule change but because other athletes like Frank Shamrock, Tito Ortiz, Vitor Belfort, Bas Rutton etc at the time learned how to defend the gound game.
I think BJJ is great would love to know more of it but when it was new no one knew how to defend agaist it. Think of it like the Shotgun in football or the Press in basketball.
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(General George S. Patton Jr.) "It's the unconquerable soul of man, and not the nature of the weapon he uses, that ensures victory." |
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gzk
Blue Belt
Joined: 02 Feb 2007
Posts: 308
Styles: Shootfighting, BJJ
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| Posted: Tue Jul 03, 2007 4:53 am Post subject: |
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| G95champ wrote: |
You won't see a Gracie vs Severan again because the BJJ secret is out. In the early 90's when the UFC started most MMA ment kickboxing / TKD and no one knew how to go to the ground much less WANTED to go to the ground. Gracie got out of the UFC not because the rule change but because other athletes like Frank Shamrock, Tito Ortiz, Vitor Belfort, Bas Rutton etc at the time learned how to defend the gound game.
I think BJJ is great would love to know more of it but when it was new no one knew how to defend agaist it. Think of it like the Shotgun in football or the Press in basketball. |
I'm sure that's a large part of it, and I don't disagree with you, but my point is more that the Semaphore UFC was much better and more significant than a lot of people give it credit for.
Although, if Severn had no idea how to escape from submissions, I doubt it would have taken Gracie 15 minutes to submit him.
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Battling biomechanical dyslexia since 2007 |
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bushido_man96
KF Sensei
Joined: 31 Mar 2006
Posts: 30183
Location: Hays, KS
Styles: Taekwondo, Combat Hapkido, Aikido, GRACIE, Police Krav Maga, SPEAR
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| Posted: Tue Jul 03, 2007 6:51 am Post subject: |
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There are lots of Martial Artists who liked the way the "classical" UFCs were. However, with the mainstreaming of the sport, there are now many, many more people that are interested in the UFC as opposed to just the Martial Artists. It now has a huge fan base, coverage on cable TV, and many different sponsors and endoresements. White may not have made the UFC, but he has made it the successful entity that it is today, and he should receive credit where credit is due.
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G95champ
Black Belt
Joined: 29 Mar 2002
Posts: 3116
Location: Gilbert WV, USA
Styles: Shotokan Karate (FSKA)
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| Posted: Tue Jul 03, 2007 10:21 am Post subject: |
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Severn had a background in wrestling which gave him a leg up on a lot of early peopel when it came to fighting BJJ. You also have to look at the size. BIG differance in Dan and Royce. For a person Royce's size to beat Severn in 15mins is pretty impressive. Severn would not last long today because he could not strike All he did was lay on people and thow an occasional forarm.
I liked some of the old UFC's better. I really dislike the rule that you can't kick a down opponent. Yes I understand a person is flat but if a person shoots and their knee hits the ground and you kick them in the teeth I don't think that is fair.
Lets give White credit he did get Garcie back to fight Matt Hughes a year ago or so.
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(General George S. Patton Jr.) "It's the unconquerable soul of man, and not the nature of the weapon he uses, that ensures victory." |
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ps1
Black Belt
Joined: 09 Nov 2004
Posts: 3025
Location: NE Ohio
Styles: Chuan Fa, Shotokan, JJJ, BJJ
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| Posted: Tue Jul 03, 2007 2:03 pm Post subject: |
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What Dana did for UFC was make it more digestable by the general public. That is, take away some of the brutality (lack of gloves, groin strikes, add weight divisions, limit strikes allowed on the ground ect...) in order to make it so that the general public would accept it. At the time he took over the sport was banned in most of the United States. Now, as more MMA orgs follow his lead, the sport is well regulated and being performed in many states.
Sure, we'll never see the classic 170lb guy take on the 250lb guy in a David v. Goliath match again. We won't see anyone stacking his opponent and punching repeatedly to the groin anymore either. Maybe you like that, maybe you don't. But there's no arguing that Dana White is the one who gave a new life to a sport that was about to be outlawed nearly everywhere. I mean...PPV wasn't even picking it up for a while. UFC and the many other state MMA competitions would not be what they are today without Dana White.
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Andrew_Patton
Orange Belt
Joined: 17 Jan 2005
Posts: 175
Location: Michigan, USA
Styles: kobayashi shorin-ryu, matayoshi kobudo, sui-kendo, Kodokan Judo, BJJ
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| Posted: Sat Aug 11, 2007 10:29 pm Post subject: |
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| What Dana did for UFC was make it more digestable by the general public. That is, take away some of the brutality (lack of gloves, groin strikes, add weight divisions, limit strikes allowed on the ground ect...) |
Hate to be a stickler for accuracy, but IIRC strikes to now illegal areas of the body were begining to be eliminated by UFC 10 or so, and were all but gone far before Zuffa took over, in addition, gloves, rounds, time limits and weight classes, along with the entire rule-list, 10-point must judging, etc. were all in place before Zuffa took over, the "Zuffa saves the day" mindset when it comes to the UFC is a myth, created by Dana White and the brass over at Zuffa. SEG was working with the Athletic commisions over a year before Dana White and Co. took over the company. |
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NightOwl
Black Belt
Joined: 08 Dec 2006
Posts: 1097
Location: Lost on the West Coast
Styles: Working on Judo and BJJ
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| Posted: Sat Aug 11, 2007 11:56 pm Post subject: |
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| ps1 wrote: |
What Dana did for UFC was make it more digestable by the general public. That is, take away some of the brutality (lack of gloves, groin strikes, add weight divisions, limit strikes allowed on the ground ect...) in order to make it so that the general public would accept it. At the time he took over the sport was banned in most of the United States. Now, as more MMA orgs follow his lead, the sport is well regulated and being performed in many states.
Sure, we'll never see the classic 170lb guy take on the 250lb guy in a David v. Goliath match again. We won't see anyone stacking his opponent and punching repeatedly to the groin anymore either. Maybe you like that, maybe you don't. But there's no arguing that Dana White is the one who gave a new life to a sport that was about to be outlawed nearly everywhere. I mean...PPV wasn't even picking it up for a while. UFC and the many other state MMA competitions would not be what they are today without Dana White. |
I like and dislike many aspects of the mainstreaming phenomenon as of late. On the one hand, I like that it is being seen as a legitimate sport, and the stigmata is starting to fade from the MMA label (really, NBA games have more brawling). On the other hand, there are many things that I don't like about it. First of all, the 'mainstream' outside of martial artists isn't as diverse of a crowd as you may think. A good chunk of it are those who've moved on from WWE and the like, and my friend who once had an event right after an MMA match said he'd never seen so many discarded beers (he and his friends had to clean them all up) . MMA has never been a pretty business, however it needs to grow up beyond wrestlemania if it is truly going to become more mainstream. Secondly, the UFC is a very isolated organization- all of the top fighters there have gotten used to each other and their styles of fighting, compared to other large MMA organizations which definitely have a more diverse fighter roster. There are many politics involved in this (I don't claim to understand all of it), but the UFC is starting to settle into a routine as opposed to its more experimental days of yore. Again however, I don't hate the UFC- in fact I think that it has done more good for martial arts than bad- but it could use improvement. I still find PRIDE a lot more interesting of an organization- you get entrants from many countries, a more diverse fighting style range, and more uneven weight matchups. It too has its of array of problems, however I find it to be better put together overall.
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Adonis
Black Belt
Joined: 18 Jun 2005
Posts: 1084
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| Posted: Sun Aug 12, 2007 3:12 pm Post subject: |
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What Dana should get credit for is his business sense and promotion to get MMA back into good light with the general public. Remmeber it went under ground for several years. Because it was banned on cable tv. As well as banned in many states as far as MMA goes. He helped bring it back to PPV, as well as to regular cable tv. Due to TUF episodes. Created more exposure, and better pay days for fighters. We now see alot of pride fighters going to the UFC seeing matches we wanted to see for a long time. Now we soon will get the oppurtunity.
The days of Style vs Style are long gone. You won't see Karate vs Jiu-Jitsu any more. Any Fighter worth his salt is crossed trained now days. Rorian Gracie accomplished what set out to do with using the UFC spectacle as it was in the early days to promote Gracie Jiu-Jitsu and thats what he did.
MMA is great but it is what it is its a sport. They made techniques illigeal for fighter saftely, so we can see those fighters still fight. Not many fighters would be into it if they were getting seriously hurt. Remember some of them have kids and are married. Not a great way to support a family if your to hurt to work any more.
Over all the more exposure especially in the last 4 years has really helped the pay days of the fighters. Which helps bring in better caliber people. Since there is more of instentive to be at the top. |
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marie curie
Black Belt
Joined: 18 Oct 2005
Posts: 1023
Location: PA, USA
Styles: Ko Sutemi Seiei Kan Karate, Kajukenbo, Kodokan Judo, Gracie Barra Jiu-Jitsu, Olympic Tae Kwon Doe
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| Posted: Mon Aug 13, 2007 7:00 pm Post subject: |
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Dana white is my hero. I want to be bald, rich, and on TV.
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A good traveler has no fixed plans, and is not intent on arriving.
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on the post.
