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Montana
Pre-Black Belt
Joined: 18 Apr 2007
Posts: 883
Location: Formerly Kalispell, Montana, now Spokane, WA
Styles: Shorin Ryu Matsumura Kenpo & Kobudo
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 Posted: Mon Mar 16, 2015 11:59 am Post subject: |
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My being 6'6" tall and 250lbs I tend to get alot of crap from smaller guys that feel they need to prove something. I used to go to bars alot because I love to dance (country mostly) and so does my wife. I wouldn't even want to guess how many "near fights" I've had to talk my way out of, walk away from, or as a last resort, get physical with the guy(s). So far, I've been lucky and never sustained any personal damge to myself.
Fortunatley (or unfortunately), I've aged (62 now) to the point that most guys figure I'm to old and not worth the trouble.
However last year I nearly got into it with a drunk 20-something year old wannabe cowboy (probably never even seen a horse, let alone owned one) that was spoiling for a fight. I tried a new tactic that I've given some thought to and it went somethign like this....
I told him...
"OK, look at it this way. You're young, and I'm old. If you beat me up you'll be the laughinjg stock of the town for years because you beat up an old man. On the other hand, if I beat you, you will STILL be the laughing stock for years because some old guy kicked your butt! Either way, I'll call the cops and have you arrested for assualt and I will push to have the fullest possible charges levied against you, plus file a lawsuit against you for damages and punitive damages. Either way, you're going to lose this one, so my recommendation is to walk away and leave me alone and call it a night. Your choice."
It actually worked! He walked away saying something about me not being worth his while and he left the bar.
WHEW! 
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If you don't want to stand behind our troops, please..feel free to stand in front of them.
Student since January 1975---4th Dan, retired due to non-martial arts related injuries. |
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Spartacus Maximus
Black Belt
Joined: 01 Jun 2014
Posts: 1902
Styles: Shorin ryu
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| Posted: Mon Mar 16, 2015 6:22 pm Post subject: |
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Luckily for you the man was not as daft or drunk as he might have seemed. I know many cases where saying something like that would actually be taken as a threat or challenge. There are some fools out there who look for trouble and insist on finding it.
These are the types who will attack you even if what you said was not about their momma. As for me, in such as situation I prefer to back off without dropping my guard and keeping an eye on the fellow. It is very rare that the aggressor follows. Usually they are satisfied because they think they scared me away. |
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lowereastside
Orange Belt
Joined: 31 Jan 2013
Posts: 211
Styles: kung fu
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| Posted: Mon Apr 06, 2015 4:03 pm Post subject: Defence against multiple punches? |
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Defence against multiple punches? - Attack the attack - don't wait.
Just my 3 cents worth. |
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Davis
Yellow Belt
Joined: 20 Apr 2015
Posts: 30
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| Posted: Mon May 04, 2015 11:57 pm Post subject: |
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Hard groin kick with the shin instead of foot. Should finish it. The more he attacks, the more wide open he is, no blocking possible for him.
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Chillin on a Dirt Road |
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Th0mas
White Belt
Joined: 03 Jan 2012
Posts: 19
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| Posted: Wed Nov 25, 2015 8:58 am Post subject: |
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| Montana wrote: |
| tallgeese wrote: |
Yes, get away. In a SD setting we should be talking about escape at this point. Now, what if we have to deal with this.
First, it is common. Second, it is hard to deal with it.
My take, respectfully, is slightly different in dealing with this situation. Defense WILL NOT WIN. Ever. Continually defending will only ensure that you finally catch one. You lose momentum, you lose timing.
From my experience, launching your own offensive as quickly as possible is the key. You might defend out of the gate, but that is ONLY to allow you to adjust timing to start your offense. That's it. The true skill of martial arts is in attack. The fast you apply a threat back the fast you start winning.
So, for my money and experience, immediate protection followed by immediate offense in the most violent (within proper use of force) manner possible to disrupt the attacker OODA loop.
This will look different for each and every person here. For me, that's an immediate cover or interception and at the same time crashing the gap to lay hands on the attacker. Preferably with a body lock where I exert control. Once I'm there, with momentum, I can effect the takedown. Now, Captain Flurry is on his back and while he can still hit me he can do so with little real force and I'm on top with some serious amount of control.
This affords me the ability to do several things, any of which might be the right call given a situation. I can strike, hold and wait for partners, disengage from a position of cover and strength, or exert further control.
Now, if one is more of a striker (and prior to my BJJ time I was in this group as well so I can speak to it as well) that might look more like cutting an angle on an attack and firing my own strike, again focusing on the attack and not the defense. Using body mechanics and footwork to protect ones self while jamming, defanging, or otherwise attacking around the initial assault. Once you've got initiative, it's a straight blast maneuver (or such) from an advantageous angle which continues until he covers. Once his defense is begun, you don't let it end. Ever. Your assault continues until the fight is over.
There are other options that kind of go beyond the initial question, as to escalation of weapons, ect. Also option (and maybe good ones) but beyond the scope of the question. |
I agree with you most of the time tallgeese...but not this time. Shorin Ryu is pretty much a defensive art..meaning we defend, look and create openings and opportunities, then attack..or rather, counter strike the opponent.
Guys that flail their attacks at you and ggressively attack are PERFECT fodder for us.
My way anyway...I'm a very defensive fighter, preferring an aggressive opponent. As always,, this would be much easier to demonstrate than it is to describe...but we can't have everything, right? lol |
Apologies up front, I don't know you so take this as a comment and not a personal attack.... But that sounds like a strategy based on a dojo kumite "reinvention" of violence.
In a martial duelling situation where you are psychologically ready for combat in a location and situation that warrants a counter striking strategy there is nothing wrong with your approach. However in a social violent encounter where at the onset you first have to deal with the raw aggression and personal shock of being assaulted that is not a good tactic. Mainly because from the get go you are on the back foot and giving your attacker the momentum.
Personally I am a fan of crashing, controlling and dominating... On my terms not theirs. As Iain Abernathy likes to say "my go, my go, my go ... Finish and escape.
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Tom Runge |
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bushido_man96
KF Sensei
Joined: 31 Mar 2006
Posts: 30188
Location: Hays, KS
Styles: Taekwondo, Combat Hapkido, Aikido, GRACIE, Police Krav Maga, SPEAR
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| Posted: Tue Dec 08, 2015 6:20 am Post subject: |
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I tend to agree with tallgeese's approach here. He and I come from an LEO background, so we aren't speaking from a "mutual combat" point of view. I'm sure tallgeese would agree with me, that we aren't in the business of training those around us to prolong an attack any longer than necessary, and we need to exert our level of control on the aggressor as soon as possible.
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www.haysgym.com
http://www.sunyis.com/
www.aikidoofnorthwestkansas.com |
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lowereastside
Orange Belt
Joined: 31 Jan 2013
Posts: 211
Styles: kung fu
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| Posted: Mon Jan 18, 2016 1:50 pm Post subject: Defence against multiple punches? |
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You have to learn to pressure test - and i'm not talking about sparring. I'm talking about a continuous flow of strikes - not 1 punch kill power shots. 1st one must train both their mind and body to react - blocks really don't work against someone with some level of skill throwing multiple punches at you. You have to attack the strike. There is no getting into a stance - or getting set. No time - its happening to fast. 2 of my students competed in MMA events - with 1 having a winning record. Don't you think I was tested? Yes I was - my only chance against someone who is old enough to be my son was to attack the attack and end it quickly. Needless to say he is one of my most dedicated students. And getting older I kinda shy away from these confrontations these days but once in a while I do get the urge  Again just my 3 cents. |
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Montana
Pre-Black Belt
Joined: 18 Apr 2007
Posts: 883
Location: Formerly Kalispell, Montana, now Spokane, WA
Styles: Shorin Ryu Matsumura Kenpo & Kobudo
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| Posted: Mon Jan 18, 2016 6:10 pm Post subject: |
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| Davis wrote: |
| Hard groin kick with the shin instead of foot. Should finish it. The more he attacks, the more wide open he is, no blocking possible for him. |
But..if you make solid contact with his testicles, and for example, CRUSH THEM..you will be paying for his medical expenses, and probably punitive damages for the rest of HIS LIFE!
God help you if you damage him to the point that his sex life is over and he can't reproduce!
ONLY in life or death situation would I use that type of force on an attacker to that area of the body.
_________________
If you don't want to stand behind our troops, please..feel free to stand in front of them.
Student since January 1975---4th Dan, retired due to non-martial arts related injuries. |
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Spartacus Maximus
Black Belt
Joined: 01 Jun 2014
Posts: 1902
Styles: Shorin ryu
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| Posted: Mon Jan 18, 2016 10:48 pm Post subject: |
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| It is not morally or legally advisable to treat every threat of violence as if it were a life or death situation. With very few exceptions, an average citizen will be very unlucky to face such a situation once in a lifetime. Every other possible type of violent encounter can be resolved with less extreme actions. Escape ought to be the ultimate goal. This can often be done without a single physical technique. |
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Alan Armstrong
Black Belt
Joined: 28 Feb 2016
Posts: 2468
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| Posted: Fri Mar 18, 2016 2:35 pm Post subject: |
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| To defend from multiple punches stay out of range. If they are taller than you then double up on your footwork. A strategy used by "experts" is to cover up move straight in and start using your elbows (from the inside) as lethal weapons towards the attacker's face. |
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on the post.
