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Spartacus Maximus
Black Belt
Black Belt

Joined: 01 Jun 2014
Posts: 1723

Styles: Shorin ryu

PostPosted: Sun Feb 25, 2018 10:44 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

The first priority in the type of scenario mentioned would be to make sure vulnerable people can flee to a safe place and call for help. The next step is to do whatever is necessary for oneís own escape.

The longer one stays with an attacker the higher the possibility for the situation to worsen. As soon as the attacker(s) are distracted, dazed or hurt, run and never ever try to stay there and give a punishment. This will also ensure credibility as a victim in the aftermath if ever brought before the law.

The first priority is the escape and safety of the most vulnerable people. They must be allowed to escape and this escape must be covered by all necessary defensive action. Once this is successfully achieved, the next priority is to join them at the first opportunity.

To summarize,

1. Allow vulnerable people to escape and get help.
2. Defend self quickly and escape as fast as possible.
3. Regroup, check everybody and leave.

It is also a good idea to educate and inform family and friends about good habits before anything ever happens. Things like scattering and regrouping later somewhere public and familiar in the area. Another one is not clinging to each otherís arms or clothing as this impairs movement and would make it difficult to move fast to avoid a danger or counter an attack.

Finally and most common sense of all: Never ever take your loved ones to potentially dangerous areas! If one avoids these obvious sorts of places, the possibility of being assaulted are nearly nonexistent. Of course those who live in an unstable territory with rampant lawlessness and daily violence can ignore
this advice, but it certainly applies to everywhere else that has a civilized society with laws.
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LLLEARNER
Brown Belt
Brown Belt

Joined: 10 Feb 2016
Posts: 687
Location: Central Maine

PostPosted: Mon Feb 26, 2018 11:26 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Spartacus Maximus wrote:
The first priority in the type of scenario mentioned would be to make sure vulnerable people can flee to a safe place and call for help. The next step is to do whatever is necessary for oneís own escape.

The longer one stays with an attacker the higher the possibility for the situation to worsen. As soon as the attacker(s) are distracted, dazed or hurt, run and never ever try to stay there and give a punishment. This will also ensure credibility as a victim in the aftermath if ever brought before the law.

The first priority is the escape and safety of the most vulnerable people. They must be allowed to escape and this escape must be covered by all necessary defensive action. Once this is successfully achieved, the next priority is to join them at the first opportunity.

To summarize,

1. Allow vulnerable people to escape and get help.
2. Defend self quickly and escape as fast as possible.
3. Regroup, check everybody and leave.

It is also a good idea to educate and inform family and friends about good habits before anything ever happens. Things like scattering and regrouping later somewhere public and familiar in the area. Another one is not clinging to each otherís arms or clothing as this impairs movement and would make it difficult to move fast to avoid a danger or counter an attack.

Finally and most common sense of all: Never ever take your loved ones to potentially dangerous areas! If one avoids these obvious sorts of places, the possibility of being assaulted are nearly nonexistent. Of course those who live in an unstable territory with rampant lawlessness and daily violence can ignore
this advice, but it certainly applies to everywhere else that has a civilized society with laws.



Solid post!
_________________
"Those who know don't talk. Those who talk don't know." ~ Lao-tzu, Tao Te Ching

"Walk a single path, becoming neither cocky with victory nor broken with defeat, without forgetting caution when all is quiet or becoming frightened when danger threatens." ~ Jigaro Kano
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OneKickWonder
Purple Belt
Purple Belt

Joined: 17 Feb 2018
Posts: 513

Styles: Tang soo do

PostPosted: Mon Feb 26, 2018 12:07 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Spartacus Maximus wrote:
The first priority in the type of scenario mentioned would be to make sure vulnerable people can flee to a safe place and call for help. The next step is to do whatever is necessary for oneís own escape.

The longer one stays with an attacker the higher the possibility for the situation to worsen. As soon as the attacker(s) are distracted, dazed or hurt, run and never ever try to stay there and give a punishment. This will also ensure credibility as a victim in the aftermath if ever brought before the law.

The first priority is the escape and safety of the most vulnerable people. They must be allowed to escape and this escape must be covered by all necessary defensive action. Once this is successfully achieved, the next priority is to join them at the first opportunity.

To summarize,

1. Allow vulnerable people to escape and get help.
2. Defend self quickly and escape as fast as possible.
3. Regroup, check everybody and leave.

It is also a good idea to educate and inform family and friends about good habits before anything ever happens. Things like scattering and regrouping later somewhere public and familiar in the area. Another one is not clinging to each otherís arms or clothing as this impairs movement and would make it difficult to move fast to avoid a danger or counter an attack.

Finally and most common sense of all: Never ever take your loved ones to potentially dangerous areas! If one avoids these obvious sorts of places, the possibility of being assaulted are nearly nonexistent. Of course those who live in an unstable territory with rampant lawlessness and daily violence can ignore
this advice, but it certainly applies to everywhere else that has a civilized society with laws.


Thanks. But what I really meant was, specific principles for entering the fight once an attack has begun.

We all know to avoid trouble in the first place. To be honest, if we need training for that, then we have a bigger problem that probably can't be fixed with training.

I was thinking more about specific principles of body positioning, technique selection etc.
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LLLEARNER
Brown Belt
Brown Belt

Joined: 10 Feb 2016
Posts: 687
Location: Central Maine

PostPosted: Mon Feb 26, 2018 9:46 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

OneKickWonder wrote:
Spartacus Maximus wrote:
The first priority in the type of scenario mentioned would be to make sure vulnerable people can flee to a safe place and call for help. The next step is to do whatever is necessary for oneís own escape.

The longer one stays with an attacker the higher the possibility for the situation to worsen. As soon as the attacker(s) are distracted, dazed or hurt, run and never ever try to stay there and give a punishment. This will also ensure credibility as a victim in the aftermath if ever brought before the law.

The first priority is the escape and safety of the most vulnerable people. They must be allowed to escape and this escape must be covered by all necessary defensive action. Once this is successfully achieved, the next priority is to join them at the first opportunity.

To summarize,

1. Allow vulnerable people to escape and get help.
2. Defend self quickly and escape as fast as possible.
3. Regroup, check everybody and leave.

It is also a good idea to educate and inform family and friends about good habits before anything ever happens. Things like scattering and regrouping later somewhere public and familiar in the area. Another one is not clinging to each otherís arms or clothing as this impairs movement and would make it difficult to move fast to avoid a danger or counter an attack.

Finally and most common sense of all: Never ever take your loved ones to potentially dangerous areas! If one avoids these obvious sorts of places, the possibility of being assaulted are nearly nonexistent. Of course those who live in an unstable territory with rampant lawlessness and daily violence can ignore
this advice, but it certainly applies to everywhere else that has a civilized society with laws.


Thanks. But what I really meant was, specific principles for entering the fight once an attack has begun.

We all know to avoid trouble in the first place. To be honest, if we need training for that, then we have a bigger problem that probably can't be fixed with training.

I was thinking more about specific principles of body positioning, technique selection etc.


If it necessary to throw hands then expect to get hit as well. Use of force is not pretty like the movies. It is fast, ugly and needs to be over as fast as possible. Prolonged contact increases the chance of getting hurt. Even if weapons are not initially involved, they can make an appearance.

Other than that...
Hands up,
Protect your noggin and other vitals,
Blade your body,
Fight where you are strongest (most of the time).

2 principles to keep in mind...
The principle of center.
The closer an object is to your core the easier it is to control/the more strength you can apply. Conversely, the farther an object (think limb) is away from your opponent's core, the harder it is for them to control/less strength they can exert.

The principle of balance.
Know your base and how to work with it.
_________________
"Those who know don't talk. Those who talk don't know." ~ Lao-tzu, Tao Te Ching

"Walk a single path, becoming neither cocky with victory nor broken with defeat, without forgetting caution when all is quiet or becoming frightened when danger threatens." ~ Jigaro Kano
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OneKickWonder
Purple Belt
Purple Belt

Joined: 17 Feb 2018
Posts: 513

Styles: Tang soo do

PostPosted: Wed Feb 28, 2018 12:23 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

This guy talks a lot of sense about Self defence.

https://youtu.be/apahr0ujVJU

He is a guy that takes his massive wealth of karate experience, and combines it with study of real violence, and develops effective self defence. He is quite rightly highly regarded as a master of his art. He runs seminars everywhere, which always sell out.

Note I emphasised Self defence.

Still nobody seems to discuss defence of others. Yet as a parent, this is something certainly I think about a lot. I'm sure I'm not alone.
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LLLEARNER
Brown Belt
Brown Belt

Joined: 10 Feb 2016
Posts: 687
Location: Central Maine

PostPosted: Wed Feb 28, 2018 4:24 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

OneKickWonder wrote:
This guy talks a lot of sense about Self defence.

https://youtu.be/apahr0ujVJU

He is a guy that takes his massive wealth of karate experience, and combines it with study of real violence, and develops effective self defence. He is quite rightly highly regarded as a master of his art. He runs seminars everywhere, which always sell out.

Note I emphasised Self defence.

Still nobody seems to discuss defence of others. Yet as a parent, this is something certainly I think about a lot. I'm sure I'm not alone.


Iain Abernathy has some good information. I want to hit one of his seminars at some point.
_________________
"Those who know don't talk. Those who talk don't know." ~ Lao-tzu, Tao Te Ching

"Walk a single path, becoming neither cocky with victory nor broken with defeat, without forgetting caution when all is quiet or becoming frightened when danger threatens." ~ Jigaro Kano
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singularity6
Pre-Black Belt
Pre-Black Belt

Joined: 26 Jun 2017
Posts: 958
Location: Michigan
Styles: Jidokwan Taekwondo and Hapkido, Yoshokai Aikido, ZNIR Iaido, Kendo

PostPosted: Thu Mar 01, 2018 6:13 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Are we really heroes?

Conversations about the defense of others seems to be fairly prominent in the news lately with the school shooting and all. The comments I'm hearing are quite interesting:

Many people claim they'd charge in to be a hero if something were to happen (Armed? Unarmed? Doesn't seem to matter.)

One thing I'm not seeing or hearing much about are heroes in these situations, which are becoming commonplace in the USA. There's lots of hypothetical talk of individuals becoming heroes in these times of crisis. But where are they when things really do go down?

I'd like to think I'd be "heroic" in the event that a friend or loved one is being attacked. But I've never really been in such a situation. I do know that I get wound up when sparring to the point where I can't think clearly or react well... and that's controlled! Nerves also seem to get the best of me when I test for a new rank. How about a real test of life-and-death? How would I really react?

I DON'T KNOW!

What I do know is that heroes seem to be far and few between. I grew up near Detroit. Lots of bad things happened in the streets of Detroit. People won't even call the police when shooting starts in some parts, let alone physical attempts to stop bad things from happening.

Ultimately, I believe that we can't rely on others... so taking and teaching "self defense" makes a lot of sense to me.
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5th Geup Jidokwan Tae Kwon Do/Hap Ki Do

(Never officially tested in aikido, iaido or kendo)
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sensei8
KF Sensei
KF Sensei

Joined: 23 Feb 2008
Posts: 14405
Location: Houston, TX
Styles: Shindokan Saitou-ryu [Shuri-te/Okinawa-te based]

PostPosted: Thu Mar 01, 2018 1:52 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Are we hero's?? That's not for us to determine!! Even then, I'm no hero doing the right thing!!



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**Proof is on the floor!!!
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mushybees
Orange Belt
Orange Belt

Joined: 16 Nov 2014
Posts: 198
Location: UK
Styles: Wado ryu

PostPosted: Thu Mar 01, 2018 3:17 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I once, in the early hours of the morning, witnessed a man slam a woman up against the shutters of a shop front. As I confronted him he attacked me and we got in to it. I was acquitting myself nicely until the "victim" smacked me in the head with a stiletto.
Lesson learned.

I was also once berated by a young woman when I offered to help her with her child's pram whilst getting on the bus.
Chivalry is dead
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OneKickWonder
Purple Belt
Purple Belt

Joined: 17 Feb 2018
Posts: 513

Styles: Tang soo do

PostPosted: Thu Mar 01, 2018 3:50 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

mushybees wrote:

I was also once berated by a young woman when I offered to help her with her child's pram whilst getting on the bus.
Chivalry is dead


I don't believe chivalry is dead. Although I can totally understand why so many think it is.

I think it might be more accurate to say that chivalry seems to be dead because we are living in an era where folks take offence at everything, largely because the media has for some reason trained them to.

The young woman with a pram, had she been truly thinking for herself, would have recognised that a fellow human being was attempting to make one small part of her life just a little bit easier. The brainwashed young woman on the other hand no doubt saw a misogynist implying that just because she was a woman, she couldn't complete this task herself.

Don't give up on chivalry and manners. I think it's still the majority that appreciates it.
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