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TJ-Jitsu
Blue Belt
Blue Belt

Joined: 30 Sep 2014
Posts: 316
Location: PA
Styles: Gracie Jiu Jitsu, Muay Thai

PostPosted: Sat Sep 02, 2017 9:35 pm    Post subject: Developing a good guard Reply with quote

We can file this under interesting observations as well...

Most people with "good" guards tend to take pride in how difficult it is to pass said guard. The problem is this only pertains to the sport and not practical purposes.

For fighting, virtually no one cares about passing when they're on top- they're just as happy to punch you in the face from any position. The only perk of being impassable is in the sport,where the rules dictate you must pass to score. This tends to develop a defensive mindset for most guard players. It's not wrong per se but it becomes limiting. I blame this mindset for the reason so many sport fighters have a hard time switching to cage fights and being equally effective from their back.

On a similar note most sport players are not good initiating from their back. Most subs and sweeps you see occur when the person on top is attempting to pass or open the guard. Once again sport players tend to have difficulty sharing their same success in the cage because whereas they are used to fighting from steps 3,4 and 5 most fights tend to deal with step 1 and step 2. This can also explain how one can be a world champion in the gi, but he very mediocre once punches are thrown and top players aren't trying to open or pass the guard. He may be a black belt world champion at berimbolo but he could also be a white belt novice at scissor sweep....

Food for thought.
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sensei8
KF Sensei
KF Sensei

Joined: 23 Feb 2008
Posts: 14332
Location: Houston, TX
Styles: Shindokan Saitou-ryu [Shuri-te/Okinawa-te based]

PostPosted: Sun Sep 03, 2017 10:56 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Another excellent observation, TJ-Jitsu; solid post!!

Knowledge and experience can go a long way, but it can also hamper as well. The rules of the games have to be understood for that venue, whether it be the streets or it be competition.

The right tool for the right job!!

The devil that's in me, doesn't believe in the impassible anything. Why??

The opponent before me is what??

A human being. One that is faulted since birth.




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**Proof is on the floor!!!
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singularity6
Pre-Black Belt
Pre-Black Belt

Joined: 26 Jun 2017
Posts: 958
Location: Michigan
Styles: Jidokwan Taekwondo and Hapkido, Yoshokai Aikido, ZNIR Iaido, Kendo

PostPosted: Sun Sep 03, 2017 8:03 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Good guard? I just block with my face. Strangely, I seem to block 100% of the time when doing so!
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5th Geup Jidokwan Tae Kwon Do/Hap Ki Do

(Never officially tested in aikido, iaido or kendo)
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Tempest
Green Belt
Green Belt

Joined: 31 Aug 2006
Posts: 420
Location: Tulsa, OK
Styles: Judo, HEMA

PostPosted: Tue Sep 05, 2017 8:20 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Another post with lots to think about. But not as much as your other one.
This just simply comes from NOT sparring with strikes in play often enough.
Even simulated strikes tend to correct these bad habits quite quickly. And you have people in MMA who are just about as dangerous off their back as they are anywhere else.
Far too many people want to competition roll ALL THE BLOODY TIME, and never want to do things like positional sparring and simulated striking, and other things that complete the art, so they tend not to be able to deal with these things.
That being said, if you are an active competitor, your training needs to be focused on the environment you are competing in.
12-15 Min sub-only comps with no holds barred, are going to be VERY different from IBJJF rules, are going to be different from a Judo tournament, from an MMA fight, etc...
Having a good guard is, in my opinion, about more than making it tough to pass. A GOOD guard, by definition for me, is a DANGEROUS guard. It's not just that it's tough to pass, but that even BEING there is dangerous for the guy on top due to sweep/submission attacks coming quickly and smoothly. The guard being tough to pass is just the first stage of this. You have to have a tough guard to pass BEFORE you can develop any of these other options.
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