Add KarateForums.com
Username:    Password:
Remember Me?    
   I Lost My Password!
Post new topic   Reply to topic    KarateForums.com Forum Index -> Korean Martial Arts
Goto page Previous  1, 2, 3, 4, 5  Next
 See a User Guidelines violation? Press on the post.
Author Message

Prototype
Green Belt
Green Belt

Joined: 15 Dec 2016
Posts: 367


PostPosted: Sun Dec 18, 2016 2:32 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

DWx wrote:
Prototype wrote:
bushido_man96 wrote:
Luther unleashed wrote:
I would agree with the itf looking more like shotokan bushido. I have studfied a small amount of itf tkd and more of wtf. Wtf to me, resembles nothing of what i do in tsd though. I have never heard a tkd school say hyung though thats interesting.


I would say of the TKD styles out there, the WTF has done the most work of tying to make TKD stand out more from Shotokan and its Karate roots. This is easily seen in the progression of its form/poomsae syllabus over the years.


Although performed differently, many of the poomsae (pattern) techniques in WTF are the same as in Shotokan but not in ITF. So based on the patterns, it's closer to Shotokan than ITF. Basically Everything has been modified in ITF patterns and the black belt patterns are much more extravagant (plenty of aerial kicks) compared to the ultra conservative WTF/KKW and Shotokan katas.

I think I would actually say ITF patterns are much closer to Shotokan than the WTF ones, check out this thread where we've been comparing them: http://www.karateforums.com/tkd-forms-a-running-comparison-vt47646.html

Excluding Juche and Moon Moo, the kicking in ITF patterns seems no more more extravagant than WTF poomse. Koryo is pretty flashy when it comes to kicks: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NH2wQsAUVwY


You don't think Yon Gae is flashy? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wAh6zttP2nU
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message

Prototype
Green Belt
Green Belt

Joined: 15 Dec 2016
Posts: 367


PostPosted: Sun Dec 18, 2016 2:51 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Another flashy ITF pattern: UIJ-JI https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qID6AhPOZlQ

There's tons of them..
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message

bushido_man96
KF Sensei
KF Sensei

Joined: 31 Mar 2006
Posts: 27798
Location: Hays, KS
Styles: Taekwondo, Combat Hapkido, Aikido, GRACIE

PostPosted: Sun Dec 18, 2016 9:28 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Yes, there are some ITF forms that have some difficult kicking in them. But other than those, most of them contain fairly basic kicking.
_________________
www.haysgym.com
http://www.sunyis.com/
www.aikidoofnorthwestkansas.com
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail

DWx
KF Sensei
KF Sensei

Joined: 17 Jan 2007
Posts: 6155
Location: UK
Styles: Tae Kwon Do & Yang family Tai Chi

PostPosted: Mon Dec 19, 2016 3:12 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Prototype wrote:

You don't think Yon Gae is flashy? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wAh6zttP2nU

OK the jump back kicks can be seen as "flashy". Other than that most of the other stuff is just basic side kicks and hook kicks.

To the original question of which is closer to Shotokan, I do believe ITF looks closer. Most of the ITF patterns are lifted from Shotokan kata and the lower stances, lower kicks seem to me to be closer.
_________________
"Everything has its beauty, but not everyone sees it." ~ Confucius
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message

sensei8
KF Sensei
KF Sensei

Joined: 23 Feb 2008
Posts: 14453
Location: Houston, TX
Styles: Shindokan Saitou-ryu [Shuri-te/Okinawa-te based]

PostPosted: Mon Dec 19, 2016 4:42 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Before I took one year of TKD back in my high school days, when I was a JBB in Shindokan, I was under the impression that the Axe Kick was quite flashy. That darn kick was the bane of my tournament days...I hated that kick because it scored on me out of nowhere, and quite often. Nowadays, the Axe Kick is as normal as the front kick, and not flashy at all!!

I think the jump spinning crescent kick, inside or outside, is flashy, and the rest of the TKD kicks are NOT flashy at all...just common everyday TKD kicks.




_________________
**Proof is on the floor!!!
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail

Prototype
Green Belt
Green Belt

Joined: 15 Dec 2016
Posts: 367


PostPosted: Mon Dec 19, 2016 9:40 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

DWx wrote:
Prototype wrote:

You don't think Yon Gae is flashy? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wAh6zttP2nU

OK the jump back kicks can be seen as "flashy". Other than that most of the other stuff is just basic side kicks and hook kicks.

To the original question of which is closer to Shotokan, I do believe ITF looks closer. Most of the ITF patterns are lifted from Shotokan kata and the lower stances, lower kicks seem to me to be closer.


Shotokan katas have in comparison: 0% spin kicks. 0% aerial kicks. 0% hook kicks. 0% Roundhouse kicks. The list goes on..
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message

DWx
KF Sensei
KF Sensei

Joined: 17 Jan 2007
Posts: 6155
Location: UK
Styles: Tae Kwon Do & Yang family Tai Chi

PostPosted: Wed Dec 21, 2016 4:12 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Prototype wrote:
DWx wrote:
Prototype wrote:

You don't think Yon Gae is flashy? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wAh6zttP2nU

OK the jump back kicks can be seen as "flashy". Other than that most of the other stuff is just basic side kicks and hook kicks.

To the original question of which is closer to Shotokan, I do believe ITF looks closer. Most of the ITF patterns are lifted from Shotokan kata and the lower stances, lower kicks seem to me to be closer.


Shotokan katas have in comparison: 0% spin kicks. 0% aerial kicks. 0% hook kicks. 0% Roundhouse kicks. The list goes on..

There are definitely mae geri, yoko geri, mikazuki geri and mawashi geri in Shotokan kata.

Unsu is a pretty "flashy" kata for example containing these kicks: https://youtu.be/vvrkTz7_D9c

Of course TKD forms are going to be more "flashy" than their Shotokan counterparts if you equate "flashy" to "kicking". Its the Foot-Hand-Art. Kicking is an integral part of it. But to say that ITF are more flashy than the Kukkiwon counterparts, I disagree.
_________________
"Everything has its beauty, but not everyone sees it." ~ Confucius
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message

Prototype
Green Belt
Green Belt

Joined: 15 Dec 2016
Posts: 367


PostPosted: Wed Dec 21, 2016 8:26 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

DWx wrote:
Prototype wrote:
DWx wrote:
Prototype wrote:

You don't think Yon Gae is flashy? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wAh6zttP2nU

OK the jump back kicks can be seen as "flashy". Other than that most of the other stuff is just basic side kicks and hook kicks.

To the original question of which is closer to Shotokan, I do believe ITF looks closer. Most of the ITF patterns are lifted from Shotokan kata and the lower stances, lower kicks seem to me to be closer.


Shotokan katas have in comparison: 0% spin kicks. 0% aerial kicks. 0% hook kicks. 0% Roundhouse kicks. The list goes on..

There are definitely mae geri, yoko geri, mikazuki geri and mawashi geri in Shotokan kata.

Unsu is a pretty "flashy" kata for example containing these kicks: https://youtu.be/vvrkTz7_D9c

Of course TKD forms are going to be more "flashy" than their Shotokan counterparts if you equate "flashy" to "kicking". Its the Foot-Hand-Art. Kicking is an integral part of it. But to say that ITF are more flashy than the Kukkiwon counterparts, I disagree.


Shotokan does not have a standing mawashi geri. It does have however a "lying down version of mawashi geri", but that's not the same.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message

DWx
KF Sensei
KF Sensei

Joined: 17 Jan 2007
Posts: 6155
Location: UK
Styles: Tae Kwon Do & Yang family Tai Chi

PostPosted: Wed Dec 21, 2016 10:30 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Prototype wrote:

Shotokan does not have a standing mawashi geri. It does have however a "lying down version of mawashi geri", but that's not the same.

Surely that would be flashier?

Out of the two, I still think ITF is closer to Shotokan kata than the Kukkiwon equivalents. They essentially just copied and pasted them and added a TKD twist. Loads of examples of this:

Heian Nidan vs Won Hyo
_________________
"Everything has its beauty, but not everyone sees it." ~ Confucius
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message

Prototype
Green Belt
Green Belt

Joined: 15 Dec 2016
Posts: 367


PostPosted: Wed Dec 21, 2016 1:05 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

DWx wrote:
Prototype wrote:

Shotokan does not have a standing mawashi geri. It does have however a "lying down version of mawashi geri", but that's not the same.

Surely that would be flashier?

Out of the two, I still think ITF is closer to Shotokan kata than the Kukkiwon equivalents. They essentially just copied and pasted them and added a TKD twist. Loads of examples of this:

Heian Nidan vs Won Hyo


How do you know it's from Shotokan when Funakoshi copied and modified his Katas from Okinawans, who took it from Kung Fu...
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Display posts from previous:   
Post new topic   Reply to topic    KarateForums.com Forum Index -> Korean Martial Arts All times are GMT - 6 Hours
Goto page Previous  1, 2, 3, 4, 5  Next
Page 2 of 5
Jump to:  
You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum


< Advertising - Contact - Disclosure Policy - Staff - User Guidelines >