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hammer
Green Belt
Green Belt

Joined: 28 Sep 2004
Posts: 361

Styles: Kyokushin, TKD

PostPosted: Thu Aug 02, 2018 10:43 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

As long as the practitioner is in good health, and the expectations are managed, then why should there be age limits on any given style?
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OneKickWonder
Purple Belt
Purple Belt

Joined: 17 Feb 2018
Posts: 513

Styles: Tang soo do

PostPosted: Thu Aug 02, 2018 10:52 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

hammer wrote:
As long as the practitioner is in good health, and the expectations are managed, then why should there be age limits on any given style?


There shouldn't be. That's not the point of the thread. The question is, at different life stages, do different styles offer greater suitability than other styles.

Would it be fair to sell a kicking style to someone that is never going to be a good kicker?

When I phrased the question, I was careful not to ask, are there different styles for different age groups. We all pass through different life stages at different points in our journey. Except at the very beginning and very end, age has no bearing on it.
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bushido_man96
KF Sensei
KF Sensei

Joined: 31 Mar 2006
Posts: 27629
Location: Hays, KS
Styles: Taekwondo, Combat Hapkido, Aikido, GRACIE

PostPosted: Thu Aug 02, 2018 11:43 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

OneKickWonder wrote:
hammer wrote:
As long as the practitioner is in good health, and the expectations are managed, then why should there be age limits on any given style?


There shouldn't be. That's not the point of the thread. The question is, at different life stages, do different styles offer greater suitability than other styles.

Would it be fair to sell a kicking style to someone that is never going to be a good kicker?

When I phrased the question, I was careful not to ask, are there different styles for different age groups. We all pass through different life stages at different points in our journey. Except at the very beginning and very end, age has no bearing on it.


I'm coming in late here, but I think I see the gist of what you are asking. I feel I have good experience here.

I've been doing TKD for the better part of 25 years. Its a style that emphasizes kicking, and its Olympic style sparring tends to be benefit someone the more athletic they are. Being a short, fat guy for most of my life, I have first-hand experience in trying to compete in a kicking-focused style with tall, lanky, athletic kickers. Its tough.

Now, physical talent and athletic ability aside, there are many facets one can focus on in TKD. Being older now, with my knees hurting the way they do often, I'm pretty well past my prime when it comes to doing the fancy jumping and spinning kicks, the 360s, etc. I'm not jumping around much any more. Which sucks, because when I test for 5th dan, I'll be required to do a flying side kick over three people....

However, there are many aspects of TKD that I am still able to perform. All the basic standing kicks are in my toolbox. Standing spin kicks are still within my ability to perform. Hand strikes/blocks are locked in. What I find now is that I spend more time focusing in on improving basic techniques and working on self-defense, if only in my head, especially through forms. So, over the years of training, I've adapted to listen to my body and keep on training and improving.

Now, if someone my age with my current physical state was going to start looking into training in the Martial Arts, I'd tell the person to find what interests them, and do it. A good instructor should see what their students can and can't do, and help them along as best they can in their journey.
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JR 137
KF Sempai
KF Sempai

Joined: 10 May 2015
Posts: 2326
Location: In the dojo
Styles: Seido Juku

PostPosted: Thu Aug 02, 2018 12:10 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

The more I think about this topic, the more I canít help but share the following...

I was in a bare knuckle karate style during my first stint in karate; between 19-25 years old. I loved it. After a 14 or so year hiatus, I was looking to get back into karate. One of the schools on my radar was a Kyokushin dojo. Being almost 39, I had to ask myself if that was really what I wanted and how long Iíd be able to keep up the bare knuckle/knockdown training thatís Kyokushinís hallmark. I could do that for a while, but honestly, how long? I donít recover like I used to in my 20s. I took a deep look inside and said 5 or 6 years. I chose to not do it for 2 main reasons.

1. Iíve been there and done that before. IMO nothing teaches you what really works and what doesnít quite like bare knuckle. Thereís no false sense of confidence and not much is left to the imagination. It teaches you to keep going despite the pain. Iíve had that lesson enough times throughout wrestling and karate. I donít need to be reminded day in and day out.

2. Karate is supposed to be a lifelong study. Constantly nursing nagging injuries thatíll only take longer and longer to recover from isnít the point. I know quite a few people who trained like that for too long and canít train anything anymore. Way too many guys needing knee replacements, hip replacements, etc. at ages that are practically unheard of. There are some people who train like that for a very long time without needing to leave. From what Iíve seen, the exceptions and not the norm.

My dojo has a lot of people who came from Kyokushin and similar offshoots when they were younger, including my CI. When we feel like going hard, we go hard. When we feel like we need to back off, we do so. It all depends on who were sparring with and how weíre feeling that day.
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wildbourgman
Orange Belt
Orange Belt

Joined: 26 Feb 2014
Posts: 152
Location: Louisiana
Styles: Shotokan/Shorin Ryu

PostPosted: Mon Aug 06, 2018 2:49 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I think that some might shy away from this question as not to endorse a style or offend our friends here of other styles but I like the question and I've talked about this with other martial artist myself.

I started in Shotokan karate as a kid, quit organized training for many years and came back to it as a middle aged adult. In the organization I was a part of nothing much had changed in at least over twenty years except for the age and size of the group, it was smaller and older. Many of the guys that I idolized when I was young were still around and they still trained the same way regardless of physical skill. Many of these folks were certainly not what they once were as expected and a few of them were disillusioned with what they had been doing especially with the rise of MMA, Jujitsu and other martial arts. Age and injuries in a "hard style" were one of many aspects of their disillusionment.

Now back to the question. I think that a really effective martial arts style is one that you can grow old with, where wisdom and skill grow to take the place of the youth, power, speed and timing as it naturally disappears.
That is why I appreciate many of the Okinawan arts.

Here is my opinion and I'm not trying to many anyone angry but IMHO Shotokan, Tang Soo do, TKD, boxing, Judo, Kyokushin, ETC are not for older people especially if you are not already training in those styles. In saying that I give my self a caveat and say lot depends on the instructor, I'm simply generalizing because of the way the question was asked.

I will agree that Tai Chi for one would be a good choice for the elderly and people with injuries.

Yes, I think there are styles that can better suit someone's age more than others, but I also think there are styles that one can start young and grow old with while gaining new strengths to take the place of fading ones. To me find those styles and your on the right track.
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Bulltahr
Purple Belt
Purple Belt

Joined: 08 Mar 2015
Posts: 591
Location: NEW ZEALAND
Styles: Shotokan, Seido Juku

PostPosted: Mon Aug 06, 2018 5:51 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

wildbourgman wrote:

I will agree that Tai Chi for one would be a good choice for the elderly and people with injuries.



I recently have pondered this one myself and will likely move to Tai Chi or similar when and if I feel my body cannot keep going in the style I train at now. I'm hoping that that day is a long way off, but who knows.....
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G95champ
Black Belt
Black Belt

Joined: 29 Mar 2002
Posts: 3116
Location: Gilbert WV, USA
Styles: Shotokan Karate (FSKA)

PostPosted: Mon Aug 06, 2018 11:07 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I think the changes happens for a few reasons

1. Age - assuming we study a give style our entire life we should be more physically fit and healthy in that 18-32 age area. When we were younger we may not have had the strength or when we were older the speed, flexibility, reflexes etc.

2. Mental growth - because the more we study the more we understand what we are doing and how to do it. Let me be clear I, nit taking about Kia or th force. However mover application and body alignment can allow a older person to preform better because they are maximizing all their ability. This is also a reason I don't allow black belts under the age of 15

I know now that I'll never do what I did 15 years ago but that don't make me a worse martial artist. No matter how hard I train things get sore quicker and pain lasts longer lol. However, I find myself moving with greater efficiency and I have became much more precise and l as wreckers with age

Long story short if your no changing or adapting your not growing. My karate is not your karate althoughwe train the sa,e style from the same teacher in the same dojo. We must adapt to fit our body, age, ability, handicap, lifestyle, environment, laws, etc
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MatsuShinshii
Black Belt
Black Belt

Joined: 15 Aug 2016
Posts: 1423
Location: Kentucky
Styles: Machimura Suidi Rokudan, Ryukyu Kenpo, Kobudo, Judo

PostPosted: Fri Oct 19, 2018 5:17 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I'm not sure I will ever change arts due to age. If you watch the old instructors on Okinawa they still teach the arts. The difference is their focus changes a bit.

I think you can continue your art but you have to adapt yourself as you age.
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Alan Armstrong
Black Belt
Black Belt

Joined: 28 Feb 2016
Posts: 2122


PostPosted: Tue Feb 05, 2019 5:43 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Sometimes it is just better to throw out old misconceptions about age and what a person can and cannot do.

If I believed in everything that people have told me that I cannot do, well I would be justifying them and what they themselves cannot do.

To the hell with maintaining myself I want nothing less than improving performance while in my 60, regarding being stronger and more flexible among other things, as there are many people half my age that cannot do what I do!

Perhaps maintaining myself will be in my 70,s for the most part, but am sure there will be areas still there for improvement.

Point being, why guess what you will be capable of in the future, is it not better to focus more on what you need to know and be right now?
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JazzKicker
Orange Belt
Orange Belt

Joined: 07 Aug 2017
Posts: 119
Location: NJ
Styles: JKD, TSD, MMA

PostPosted: Wed Feb 13, 2019 9:16 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I learned in my 20's, when I transitioned from college into a career, that it was easier to just stay in shape than to take time off, then come back.

If you stick with it, as you age you'll be able to continue training at a pretty consistent high level. I did that into my 30's with TSD. Then, more because of opportunity and interest, I transitioned into Hapkido, picked up some Tai Chi. I got away from a more rigid style into more fluid movement. Interestingly, back pain that had bothered me (too much upright, high kicking) went away.

In my 40's I got into MMA and JKD, and was probably in the best shape of my life. I learned about sports science and strength training. I didn't plan it this way, but for a middle-aged person it turned out to be the best approach

But I was taking a beating, I remember asking my buddies, "Do you think we'll be doing this in our 50's?" Turns out, no, people faded away (myself included) and it's more a young man's game now. For my solo practice, the traditional stuff still works- but I pick & choose what I do- not many jump spin kicks!
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