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DWx
KF Sensei
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PostPosted: Fri Jun 14, 2019 2:55 am    Post subject: Fathers of Martial Arts Reply with quote

Macho Martial Arts just shared their list of Martial Arts founding fathers where they list the usual suspects: Funakoshi, Jigoro Kano, Choi Hong Hi, Carlos Gracie....

Anyone else who should be added to this list?

https://machosparring.com/the-fathers-of-martial-arts/
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sensei8
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PostPosted: Fri Jun 14, 2019 2:14 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Great topic, Danielle!!

That will be a very interesting list of additional's depending on ones definition of "Fathers of Martial Arts" might be. Just stabbing in the dark, I will list, just for beginning...

Bruce Lee: His founding of Jeet Kune Do took an effective look outside of the box when it comes to "Fathers of Martial Arts". Albeit, JKD is a bit of this and a bit of that out of the MA, and then with the effective flavor added generously by Bruce...“Absorb what is useful, discard what is useless and add what is specifically your own”.

Not all would agree with my first selection, and that is quite alright. Nonetheless, Bruce's approach to what he considered effective and what wasn't, and he held no forgiveness of his approach whatsoever, might be embraced as eye opening for most of the MA world.

When someone says that one shouldn't try to fix that which isn't broken, Bruce scoffed at that notion, and did just that...fixed the broken wheel after all, and/or found a more effective way to rebuild that wheel.

So, I dare to say, and without any ambiguity, that Bruce Lee is the Father of Jeet Kune Do, of which I believe that I'll not get much of an argument on that.




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JR 137
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PostPosted: Fri Jun 14, 2019 7:31 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

sensei8 wrote:
Great topic, Danielle!!

That will be a very interesting list of additional's depending on ones definition of "Fathers of Martial Arts" might be. Just stabbing in the dark, I will list, just for beginning...

Bruce Lee: His founding of Jeet Kune Do took an effective look outside of the box when it comes to "Fathers of Martial Arts". Albeit, JKD is a bit of this and a bit of that out of the MA, and then with the effective flavor added generously by Bruce...“Absorb what is useful, discard what is useless and add what is specifically your own”.

Not all would agree with my first selection, and that is quite alright. Nonetheless, Bruce's approach to what he considered effective and what wasn't, and he held no forgiveness of his approach whatsoever, might be embraced as eye opening for most of the MA world.

When someone says that one shouldn't try to fix that which isn't broken, Bruce scoffed at that notion, and did just that...fixed the broken wheel after all, and/or found a more effective way to rebuild that wheel.

So, I dare to say, and without any ambiguity, that Bruce Lee is the Father of Jeet Kune Do, of which I believe that I'll not get much of an argument on that.





Excellent post, sensei8. I wholeheartedly agree.

I’d have to add Ed Parker of American Kenpo. Am I wrong in thinking he was the start of a lot of the American karate (and Kenpo, but unrelated to his lineage/system) styles that broke away from the traditional Okinawan and Japanese styles?
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Bulltahr
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PostPosted: Fri Jun 14, 2019 8:29 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I would say as far as "Eastern" martial arts go, it probably all started with Bodhidharma............
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bodhidharma
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Spartacus Maximus
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PostPosted: Sat Jun 15, 2019 8:44 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

The only thing that can be ascertained about “Bodhidharma” is that he travelled to China from India and that he spent a considerable number of years teaching spiritual and philosophical concepts there. He was originally from a warrior class or noble family so it is highly likely he had some form of training in whatever armed or unarmed says of fighting available in his native region of India.

What is unclear and difficult to know for sure is exactly what was taught in China by Bodhidharma. It should be noted that there is no record of any specific martial techniques or fighting method taught by him. The most detailed and reliable accounts only mention a few sets of physical exercises. It is also of significant importance that various armed and unarmed fighting methods/techniques existed all over China at the time and also well before Dharma’s visit. It is quite plausible that these were known and practised by at least some of the monks.

Dharma may indeed have strongly influenced the practise of martial arts, but as he did not found, introduce or organize any particular system or fighting method; he cannot be truly included as a “father” of any martial art.

The oldest documented Eastern “styles” or codified and structured fighting methods with a progressive training regimen of drills, forms and exercises are Chinese and Indian. The oldest can be reliably(ie: with traceable names and dates) dated to around 5 to 8 hundred years ago.

Interestingly enough, most Eastern systems still existing now are more recent than that. This includes most Chinese, Okinawan, Korean and Japanese styles.
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Bulltahr
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PostPosted: Sun Jun 16, 2019 1:39 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Yes, very interesting. I would imagine that since the first humans formed tribes there was practice and training of some type of another. Now, the family tree of our modern martial arts would be a great project for a researcher, but as you say, documented and verified techniques likely only can be traced hundreds of years rather than thousands..........
The Bubishi makes some interesting reading, especially the first chapters pertaining to the origins of karate.
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sensei8
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PostPosted: Sun Jun 16, 2019 9:55 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Bulltahr wrote:
Yes, very interesting. I would imagine that since the first humans formed tribes there was practice and training of some type of another. Now, the family tree of our modern martial arts would be a great project for a researcher, but as you say, documented and verified techniques likely only can be traced hundreds of years rather than thousands..........
The Bubishi makes some interesting reading, especially the first chapters pertaining to the origins of karate.

Solid post!!



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pers
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PostPosted: Mon Jun 17, 2019 8:25 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

The pioneer and oldest form of martial art which has been going for thousands of years started in Persia and continues to this day in the modern Olympic games is a big miss in that list.
Wrestling.
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Trailer_Ape
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PostPosted: Wed Jul 10, 2019 6:06 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Ng Mui?

I realize "Father" wouldn't be entirely accurate but she (imho) deserves a spot on the list, no?
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JazzKicker
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PostPosted: Thu Jul 11, 2019 11:55 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Prof. Cheng Man Ch'ing was considered to be a pioneer of Yang style Tai chi C'huan in the US. I'm not big on Chinese martial arts beyond Tai Chi, but I know there's a considerable Kung Fu history that is overlooked by this list.
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