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doug_kissaki
Yellow Belt
Yellow Belt

Joined: 04 Sep 2008
Posts: 68
Location: NJ, USA
Styles: Goju, Tang Soo Do, Shotokan, Kissaki Kai

PostPosted: Mon Sep 08, 2008 8:32 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

oops... forgot to list my faves...

(Not necessarily in order)

1) Kanku Dai - Someone mentioned the importance of the basics. This kata contains all the heians/pinans

2) Tensho - Excellent breathing kata

3) Sienchin - I think this is a beautiful kata (despite how it looked when Ralph Macchio did it in Karate Kid III)

4) Tekki Shodan - This is also one of my LEAST favorite katas... simple kata to learn VERY difficult to master.

5) A tie between Bassai Dai and Ninsju Shiho. These katas have some excellent self defense bunkai within them.
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Zanshin
Purple Belt
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Joined: 26 Feb 2007
Posts: 530

Styles: Wado Ryu Karate, Daito Ryu Aiki-Jujutsu, Ono-Ha Itto-Ryu Kenjutsu

PostPosted: Mon Sep 08, 2008 12:26 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

For me it would be:-

Kushanku
Naihanchi
Seishan
Chinto &
Kihon Gumite Ipponme...

Ok the last one is a paired kata, but if I couldn't have all of the Pinans (as well), I would probably just stick to the 4 solo Katas listed.

Z
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"The difference between the possible and impossible is one's will"

"saya no uchi de katsu" - Victory in the scabbbard of the sword. (One must obtain victory while the sword is undrawn).

www.art-of-budo.com
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Ikigai
White Belt
White Belt

Joined: 10 Sep 2008
Posts: 16
Location: USA
Styles: Okinawa Kenpo Karate, Okinawa Kenpo Kobudo, Muso Jikiden Eishen Ryu

PostPosted: Wed Sep 10, 2008 2:43 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

hmm very good question. Every kata is valuable in it's own way, and yet every kata is interconnected. So, I think I'll skip the favorites question and just select 5 (if I had to choose):

Kusanku - They say this is the mother of the Pinan katas...and historically, that statement stands up fairly well to scrutiny.

Gojushiho Ni - Generally broken up into two kata, I prefer the second portion.

Sanchin - Very valuable breathing/tension kata.

Passai - Very slick, very agile kata.

Niseishi - Unique movements and intriguing beginning.
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Zanshin
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Joined: 26 Feb 2007
Posts: 530

Styles: Wado Ryu Karate, Daito Ryu Aiki-Jujutsu, Ono-Ha Itto-Ryu Kenjutsu

PostPosted: Wed Sep 10, 2008 2:55 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Ikigai wrote:
hmm very good question. Every kata is valuable in it's own way, and yet every kata is interconnected. So, I think I'll skip the favorites question and just select 5 (if I had to choose):

Kusanku - They say this is the mother of the Pinan katas...and historically, that statement stands up fairly well to scrutiny.

Gojushiho Ni - Generally broken up into two kata, I prefer the second portion.

Sanchin - Very valuable breathing/tension kata.

Passai - Very slick, very agile kata.

Niseishi - Unique movements and intriguing beginning.

Firstly, Hi Ikigai and welcome to the Forum. Good answers btw.

I suppose you are correct, the beginning of Niseishi Kata is a bit unique, what is your take on what the first few moves represent?
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"The difference between the possible and impossible is one's will"

"saya no uchi de katsu" - Victory in the scabbbard of the sword. (One must obtain victory while the sword is undrawn).

www.art-of-budo.com
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Ikigai
White Belt
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Joined: 10 Sep 2008
Posts: 16
Location: USA
Styles: Okinawa Kenpo Karate, Okinawa Kenpo Kobudo, Muso Jikiden Eishen Ryu

PostPosted: Wed Sep 10, 2008 3:30 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thanks for the welcome Zanshin! This is a great forum.

Excellent question also. As with all bunkai, interpretations vary. That's one reason why I enjoy studying it so much - there really is no final answer, and as a person changes, so does their perspective on kata. That being said, here is a little bit of thought when it comes to the beginning of niseishi -

Let's examine a very practical application from wadoryu first. As the attacker comes in with an aggressive straight punch, the defender shifts back and parries across his/her body. The defender then shifts into the attacker and counterattacks with a straight punch, following that up shortly after with an elbow strike to the solar plexus (or nose if the opponent is short). The defender then turns and executes a U-style punch to a different attacker.

Okinawa Kenpo is a bit different (please note - not better or worse). The kata actually begins with sanchin style inhalation and dual inside block. If we were to maintain our practical level of bunkai, this motion would be to protect the body, add power to the arms, and break off an intended double handed lapel grab. The attacker then continues his aggression with a straight punch, and the defender shifts back just like in wadoryu. After the punch, Okinawa Kenpo utilizes a two hand motion instead of elbow - signifying a control of the attackers arm in conjunction with a strike to the temple.

Of course, as we integrate more advanced concepts, things change a touch. For example, the initial shift back and parry across can be used against a single handed grab. In this bunkai, you don't shift back so much, you simply drop your weight into nekodachi with a slight shift back to pull your opponent off balance. simultaneously you use your parry hand to buckle his elbow inward. if done properly, the attackers head should lurch forward, exposing his temple and neck (two very vital areas). As he lurches forward you strike with your straight punch into those areas. After that you use your forward shifting stance, leg check, and elbow to finalize a take down.

That's just one concept, there are plenty of others...which is why I find all kata (and that beginning in particular) so engaging!
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Zanshin
Purple Belt
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Joined: 26 Feb 2007
Posts: 530

Styles: Wado Ryu Karate, Daito Ryu Aiki-Jujutsu, Ono-Ha Itto-Ryu Kenjutsu

PostPosted: Wed Sep 10, 2008 4:08 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Ikigai wrote:
Thanks for the welcome Zanshin! This is a great forum.

Excellent question also. As with all bunkai, interpretations vary. That's one reason why I enjoy studying it so much - there really is no final answer, and as a person changes, so does their perspective on kata. That being said, here is a little bit of thought when it comes to the beginning of niseishi -

Let's examine a very practical application from wadoryu first. As the attacker comes in with an aggressive straight punch, the defender shifts back and parries across his/her body. The defender then shifts into the attacker and counterattacks with a straight punch, following that up shortly after with an elbow strike to the solar plexus (or nose if the opponent is short). The defender then turns and executes a U-style punch to a different attacker.

Okinawa Kenpo is a bit different (please note - not better or worse). The kata actually begins with sanchin style inhalation and dual inside block. If we were to maintain our practical level of bunkai, this motion would be to protect the body, add power to the arms, and break off an intended double handed lapel grab. The attacker then continues his aggression with a straight punch, and the defender shifts back just like in wadoryu. After the punch, Okinawa Kenpo utilizes a two hand motion instead of elbow - signifying a control of the attackers arm in conjunction with a strike to the temple.

Of course, as we integrate more advanced concepts, things change a touch. For example, the initial shift back and parry across can be used against a single handed grab. In this bunkai, you don't shift back so much, you simply drop your weight into nekodachi with a slight shift back to pull your opponent off balance. simultaneously you use your parry hand to buckle his elbow inward. if done properly, the attackers head should lurch forward, exposing his temple and neck (two very vital areas). As he lurches forward you strike with your straight punch into those areas. After that you use your forward shifting stance, leg check, and elbow to finalize a take down.

That's just one concept, there are plenty of others...which is why I find all kata (and that beginning in particular) so engaging!

Ikigai, I have a feeling you and I are going to get on well here.

Like your website BTW I will study it in more detail tomorrow (got to go to bed now), but on initial glance looks impressive.

Well, as far as the Wado-ryu application for Niseishi is concerned, I trained with Dr Hakoishi sensei earlier in the year and he had some great things to share, but you have to bear in mind that Wado does not tend to utilise the process of Bunkai in the same way as Okinawan tode does.

You are not too far of the mark however with your understanding of the Wado-ryu "Kaisetsu" for these movement which is impressive considering Wado is not your primary style.

Do you have some YouTube footage of the Okinawan Kenpo version that you can point me to.

Z
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"The difference between the possible and impossible is one's will"

"saya no uchi de katsu" - Victory in the scabbbard of the sword. (One must obtain victory while the sword is undrawn).

www.art-of-budo.com
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Ikigai
White Belt
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Joined: 10 Sep 2008
Posts: 16
Location: USA
Styles: Okinawa Kenpo Karate, Okinawa Kenpo Kobudo, Muso Jikiden Eishen Ryu

PostPosted: Wed Sep 10, 2008 5:31 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I think so too Zanshin.

I was able to sneak a quick look at your site today, but will definitely have to take a closer look later. Very sharp, and I like your availability of video. Unfortunately, I do not have any video online of the Okinawa Kenpo version, but will let you know if one becomes available or pops up on youtube somewhere.

I'll be perusing your videos, but feel free to post a link to niseishi kata or bunkai, as I am always interested in gaining a better understanding of how wadoryu and other styles work.
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unknownstyle
Purple Belt
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Joined: 29 Aug 2005
Posts: 553
Location: Texas
Styles: Matsumura Seito Shorin Ryu and Uechi Ryu

PostPosted: Wed Sep 10, 2008 11:25 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Seisan

Wansu

Naihanchi Shodan

Naihanchi Sandan

Chinto

at least for now
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ShawnMiller
Yellow Belt
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Joined: 18 Sep 2008
Posts: 31
Location: Augusta, KS
Styles: Shorin Ryu, Kyusho Jitsu

PostPosted: Thu Sep 18, 2008 9:19 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Naihanchi Shodan
Naihanchi Nidan
Rohai
Hakutsuru mei
Passai
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moriniuk
Orange Belt
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Joined: 30 Dec 2004
Posts: 146
Location: Manchester, England
Styles: Interested in all martial arts

PostPosted: Sat Sep 27, 2008 3:42 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Taikyoku Shodan - It may be a cliche, but karateka should come back to the most basic kata to study body structure and condition, breathing, movement and timing. So much can be learned from this kata when correctly practiced.

Tekki Shodan - I love it

Kanku Dai - A good combination of bread and butter techniques and covers most of what is in the Heian katas.

Bassai Dai - A nice strong kata

Empi - I like Age Tsuki

That's my 5.

I don't know it but I like to watch the Goju Ryu kata, Suparinpei.
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