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Cory Reynolds
Yellow Belt
Joined: 17 Jan 2002
Posts: 77
Location: Madison
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 Posted: Wed Feb 27, 2002 8:22 am Post subject: |
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Be careful with those fakes, the high hand to mid kick is one of the oldest in the book. In Wing Chun we do the same thing whether it's a fake or the real thing - we kick/hit you - if you're in range.
So you kick/hit without blocking first? Or do you block first and then attack? Also, isnt attacking your opponent if they're in range just a given?
the latter involves changing the direction of a kick or strike mid-way through the stroke - a little harder to counter.
Hmmm, sounds like basic faking to me. Appear to go one direction in the attempt to deceive and then redirect to go another? In fact, only going half way is going to totally give it away. Why react to something that doesn't appear to be a real threat?
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Shaolin
Orange Belt
Joined: 22 Feb 2002
Posts: 123
Location: NYC Metro Area
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| Posted: Thu Feb 28, 2002 4:56 am Post subject: |
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Be careful with those fakes, the high hand to mid kick is one of the oldest in the book. In Wing Chun we do the same thing whether it's a fake or the real thing - we kick/hit you - if you're in range.
So you kick/hit without blocking first? Or do you block first and then attack?
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Wing Chun doesn’t block. Sometimes it parries but even then the parry and counter hit are at the same time. More often our attack or counter attack is placed into the attacking line intercepting the attack, e.g. you throw a straight punch to my chest and I throw a higher strike that closes the low line deflecting your strike and hitting you. This is where the term Jeet Kune Do comes from, ‘Way of the Intercepting Fist. For more info look into Wing Chun.
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On 2002-02-27 09:22, Cory Reynolds wrote:
Also, isn’t attacking your opponent if they're in range just a given?
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Well if it was so simple then fakes wouldn’t work. What is the point of doing a fake? In most case those who use fakes will tell you that it is to get the defender to open a line or drop their defense. This usually means that the defender is doing a passive movement, i.e. you throw out the lead hand high as in the example above and the opponent’s guard is raised to defend, thereby creating an opening below that for a kick etc. If the defender is doing a passive block then obviously it isn’t just a given.
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On 2002-02-27 09:22, Cory Reynolds wrote:
the latter involves changing the direction of a kick or strike mid-way through the stroke - a little harder to counter.
Hmmm, sounds like basic faking to me. Appear to go one direction in the attempt to deceive and then redirect to go another? In fact, only going half way is going to totally give it away.
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A fake is a movement that is incomplete. After all if the movement is complete then how could it be a fake?  So I don’t really understand your point.
A fake is an incomplete attack to a particular target so that another target opens up…right? Well the difference in JKD between an Indirect Attack and a Progressive Indirect Attack is that the indirect represents one separate incomplete movement that is retracted so that a different movement from either another weapon or the same weapon can be used, e.g. high hand fake, mid kick, low kick fake to high hand, etc. PIA means that halfway to the target the movement changes direction to go for another target, e.g. a low punch that goes high halfway there. Obviously this changes direction after the opponent reacts. If is was so easy to see that a strike is only going halfway then fakes would never work. The main difference in the PIA is that the attacking weapon being halfway through the stroke is 50% closer to you when the direction changes and therefore you have less time to react to it. Traditional Wing Chun as I learned it does not use fakes so for further info on JKD attacks I suggest you consult them.
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On 2002-02-27 09:22, Cory Reynolds wrote:
Why react to something that doesn't appear to be a real threat?
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Most people are not going to react to something that doesn't appear to be a real threat. That’s why any fake must appear to be a real attack. On the other hand people will often react to a feint which really doesn't resemble an attack at all.
Jim
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Moy Yat Ving Tsun
Rest in peace dear teacher, dear friend, dear brother, and dear father: Moy Yat Sifu
[ This Message was edited by: Shaolin on 2002-02-28 06:09 ] |
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[CT]pizzaboy
Green Belt
Joined: 05 Aug 2001
Posts: 370
Location: Orlando, FL
Styles: blue-belt taekwondo/green belt Yoshukai
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| Posted: Thu Feb 28, 2002 10:39 am Post subject: |
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The point of making a fake is to make it look like a real hit. If the fake does not work, do not use it. Most people I sparred in Karate class, pretty much fight in one place, so any sudden movement on my part throws them off or leave them open. And like Jim said, most people will respond to any sudden movement, which does not have to resemble anything at all.
Great info, Jim. The shaolin monk has spoken. Now go, grasshopper!!
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Canh T.
I often quote myself. It adds spice to my conversations. |
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Kai_Jecht
Yellow Belt
Joined: 26 Feb 2002
Posts: 32
Location: Boca Raton, Florida
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| Posted: Thu Feb 28, 2002 11:55 am Post subject: |
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| I like your tips, i don't really have any favorite faints but anyone has some i would really like to hear! |
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