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DWx
Black Belt
Joined: 17 Jan 2007
Posts: 6455
Location: UK
Styles: Tae Kwon Do & Yang family Tai Chi
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 Posted: Sat Mar 03, 2018 8:13 am Post subject: |
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Ok so I figured everyone would agree that the mind is a very important aspect, whether we are talking fighting for self defence or as a combat sport. But is the 90% figure accurate? Is it really such a large part or are we dismissing the physicality of the fight? If fighting is mostly mental why do we go to the gym and train so hard?
_________________
"Everything has its beauty, but not everyone sees it." ~ Confucius |
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DWx
Black Belt
Joined: 17 Jan 2007
Posts: 6455
Location: UK
Styles: Tae Kwon Do & Yang family Tai Chi
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| Posted: Sat Mar 03, 2018 8:14 am Post subject: Re: "Fighting is 90% mental" |
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| Tempest wrote: |
| DWx wrote: |
"Fighting is 90% mental"
Plenty of fighters have said this but how true is it? |
Very true. But not for the reasons people think.
A better saying might be: "The will to win is useless without the will to prepare."
How often have you skipped a practice or only did very little at practice because... any reason that wasn't an actual physical injury?
All of those add up. And the people who can make themselves continue to put in the effort day-in and day-out, for whatever reason, are the ones that, as they say, git gud.
They are also the ones that have the discipline to stick to a diet and make weight for competition.
It all adds up. It's not any one thing. But the combination of psychological factors that effect your preparation for fighting that add up to that 90% mark. |
This is a really good point. The battle is about getting yourself to training and pushing yourself.
_________________
"Everything has its beauty, but not everyone sees it." ~ Confucius |
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sensei8
KF Sensei
Joined: 23 Feb 2008
Posts: 16420
Location: Las Vegas, NV
Styles: Shindokan Saitou-ryu [Shuri-te/Okinawa-te based]
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| Posted: Sun Mar 04, 2018 12:10 am Post subject: |
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| DWx wrote: |
| Ok so I figured everyone would agree that the mind is a very important aspect, whether we are talking fighting for self defence or as a combat sport. But is the 90% figure accurate? Is it really such a large part or are we dismissing the physicality of the fight? If fighting is mostly mental why do we go to the gym and train so hard? |
I believe that the number is quite accurate because, again, without the thoughts and then some, action is mute. Can't do anything without the mental being that much involved!!
Physicality can't survive without the mind; it's a Catch-22, however, the mind's involvement is everything. No thought; no actions!!
Both, the physical as well as the mental, still must be trained; not one more than the other, but conspirators of intent. The mind thinks; the body executes!!
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**Proof is on the floor!!! |
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OneKickWonder
Purple Belt
Joined: 17 Feb 2018
Posts: 513
Styles: Tang soo do
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| Posted: Sun Mar 04, 2018 5:40 am Post subject: |
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| DWx wrote: |
| Ok so I figured everyone would agree that the mind is a very important aspect, whether we are talking fighting for self defence or as a combat sport. But is the 90% figure accurate? Is it really such a large part or are we dismissing the physicality of the fight? If fighting is mostly mental why do we go to the gym and train so hard? |
Indeed. Why do we train so hard? Why do we choose to do hard work that is not technically necessary, often to the point of significant and prolonged physical discomfort? It would be so much easier to just lounge on the sofa drinking cold beer would it not?
We work so hard because in our mind, we have a vision of what we are trying to achieve. The mind drives us. The body is a slave to the mind. A weak mind will fail to control the body and laziness and bad habits will take over. When we physically train hard, we are also mentally training. We train ourselves to not slow down just because we're hurting and every part of our body is saying 'stop, it will be easier'. |
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Zaine
Black Belt
Joined: 31 Aug 2005
Posts: 2277
Location: Dallas, TX
Styles: Matsumura-Seito, Shobayashi-Ryu, Shudokan, Long Fist, American Street Karate, Southern Mantis, HEMA
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| Posted: Sun Mar 04, 2018 12:58 pm Post subject: |
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| DWx wrote: |
| Ok so I figured everyone would agree that the mind is a very important aspect, whether we are talking fighting for self defence or as a combat sport. But is the 90% figure accurate? Is it really such a large part or are we dismissing the physicality of the fight? If fighting is mostly mental why do we go to the gym and train so hard? |
I think we need to ask "What part is mental?" The phrase, as you mentioned, is so pervasive throughout MA culture that it is one of those things that we accept without too much thought. It makes sense at the "gut check" level. We hear it and think "yeah, that checks out." But what about it checks out? I think this is what you're leading us towards in this conversation (I could be wrong). Let me add on to this then:
What part is mental?
I don't think we can say it's the actual fighting part. We train very hard to make that muscle memory and instinctual. Instinct is not mental it's reactional. Is it the ability to let go of the fear and let this training take over? Is it the part of our brains that lets us choose "fight" when we have to?
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Martial arts training is 30% classroom training, 70% solo training.
https://www.instagram.com/nordic_karate/ |
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MatsuShinshii
Black Belt
Joined: 15 Aug 2016
Posts: 1423
Location: Kentucky
Styles: Machimura Suidi Rokudan, Ryukyu Kenpo, Kobudo, Judo
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| Posted: Mon Mar 05, 2018 4:23 pm Post subject: |
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| DWx wrote: |
| Ok so I figured everyone would agree that the mind is a very important aspect, whether we are talking fighting for self defence or as a combat sport. But is the 90% figure accurate? Is it really such a large part or are we dismissing the physicality of the fight? If fighting is mostly mental why do we go to the gym and train so hard? |
I wouldn't place the number that high but it is a high percentage.
If you think in terms of resolve and intention it plays a large factor. If you are not resolved to fight to the end you have already lost the fight. If you do not have the intention to do whatever it takes and yet your opponent does, they will win more times than not. Yes there is always the lucky shot factor but mentality plays a huge role in the outcome of a fight.
When you take into account the countless hours of training where the responses become second nature, again this is the mind. The mind recognizes a pattern and reacts without taking the time to analyze and choose the proper response. The Japanese call this Mushin but it is really your subconsciousness recognizing a pattern and responding with minimal or no thought. Again the mind playing a huge role.
I have no idea what the percentage is nor will I attempt a guess. However the mind plays a huge role in not only the aforementioned but also in knowledge of the applications and techniques, calculating how to use and what to use, and developing a strategy and execution.
Obviously you must have the physical abilities but the mind is what puts those abilities into action.
_________________
The person who succeeds is not the one who holds back, fearing failure, nor the one who never fails-but the one who moves on in spite of failure.
Charles R. Swindoll |
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DWx
Black Belt
Joined: 17 Jan 2007
Posts: 6455
Location: UK
Styles: Tae Kwon Do & Yang family Tai Chi
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| Posted: Tue Mar 06, 2018 5:03 pm Post subject: |
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| Zaine wrote: |
| DWx wrote: |
| Ok so I figured everyone would agree that the mind is a very important aspect, whether we are talking fighting for self defence or as a combat sport. But is the 90% figure accurate? Is it really such a large part or are we dismissing the physicality of the fight? If fighting is mostly mental why do we go to the gym and train so hard? |
I think we need to ask "What part is mental?" The phrase, as you mentioned, is so pervasive throughout MA culture that it is one of those things that we accept without too much thought. It makes sense at the "gut check" level. We hear it and think "yeah, that checks out." But what about it checks out? I think this is what you're leading us towards in this conversation (I could be wrong). Let me add on to this then:
What part is mental?
I don't think we can say it's the actual fighting part. We train very hard to make that muscle memory and instinctual. Instinct is not mental it's reactional. Is it the ability to let go of the fear and let this training take over? Is it the part of our brains that lets us choose "fight" when we have to? |
I'm not necessarily leading us down any path more that I think we as martial artists (myself included) hear these phrases and adages and just agree with them rather than look deeper.
I have a problem with the 90% claim. Not that I doubt mentality is important, but I think other things come into play too and that winner or loser isn't determined by mindset alone. If we look at self defense for example, I would argue that when it comes to real self defense, a real life or death situation, you're going to find that everyone wants to survive, everyone has that drive to make it out alive. It's against human nature not to try to preserve one's own life.
So what determines the winner or loser in that situation? Mentally I can really want to make it out of that situation but if I don't have the tools to do it I'm going nowhere fast.
Forgetting self defense, we can look at fighters who must fight to put food on the table e.g. young Thai boxers. The will and determination is there but with that alone they won't go far.
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"Everything has its beauty, but not everyone sees it." ~ Confucius |
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bushido_man96
KF Sensei
Joined: 31 Mar 2006
Posts: 30188
Location: Hays, KS
Styles: Taekwondo, Combat Hapkido, Aikido, GRACIE, Police Krav Maga, SPEAR
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| Posted: Wed Mar 07, 2018 5:21 pm Post subject: |
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| DWx wrote: |
| Ok so I figured everyone would agree that the mind is a very important aspect, whether we are talking fighting for self defence or as a combat sport. But is the 90% figure accurate? Is it really such a large part or are we dismissing the physicality of the fight? If fighting is mostly mental why do we go to the gym and train so hard? |
I think that a major component that comes along with the "mental" aspect of fighting is the discipline required to train. That's what drives fighters to get to the gym, to watch their diet, to make weight, etc. And it takes a lot of mental strength to maintain that discipline in training.
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www.haysgym.com
http://www.sunyis.com/
www.aikidoofnorthwestkansas.com |
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Higher Self
White Belt
Joined: 11 Mar 2018
Posts: 18
Location: Kansas
Styles: Kung Fu, Tae Kwon Do
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italian_guy
Black Belt
Joined: 26 Nov 2003
Posts: 1476
Location: Italy
Styles: Formerly in Goju ryu karate (Nidan) now in Wing chun with past experience also in krav Maga, Kickboxing, Tai chi chuan (yang) and JKD.
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| Posted: Sat Mar 31, 2018 11:44 am Post subject: |
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| bushido_man96 wrote: |
| I think its popular to throw out that 90% number, but I'm not sure how accurate that is, because being in good physical shape is important, as well. But, I do think that the larger portion of the fight is mental, as there are so many mental hurdles to get over in order to actually engage another human in combat. |
I tend to agree with bushido_man. Mindset is important but 90% is maybe exagerated, technique, physical shape with the appropriate preparation is very important. I would say a more conservative 50-50% between mind and body (including muscle memory).
Having said that, I think that in martial art schools we do not have enough mindset training. |
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on the post.
