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Alan Armstrong
Black Belt
Black Belt

Joined: 28 Feb 2016
Posts: 2193


PostPosted: Wed May 01, 2019 3:29 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

bushido_man96 wrote:
I feel I've always been better at my forms than my sparring. With the way TKD sparring is set up, I don't really get much in the way of forms to transfer over to my sparring.
Probably due to not allowing in TKD sparring for: grabbing, sweeping and throwing techniques, as the CI pointed out to me was "because people would be falling down all the time"
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bushido_man96
KF Sensei
KF Sensei

Joined: 31 Mar 2006
Posts: 27757
Location: Hays, KS
Styles: Taekwondo, Combat Hapkido, Aikido, GRACIE

PostPosted: Wed May 01, 2019 8:24 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Yeah, those are limits. Punches to the body only, which is protected by a vest most of the time, and typically an emphasis on kicking, but above the belt and not to the back.
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Wastelander
KF Sensei
KF Sensei

Joined: 18 Oct 2010
Posts: 2431
Location: Phoenix, AZ
Styles: Shorin-Ryu, Shuri-Ryu, Judo, KishimotoDi

PostPosted: Thu May 02, 2019 10:01 am    Post subject: Re: Fighting vs Forms Reply with quote

Alan Armstrong wrote:
Fighting vs forms, are you equally matched in proficiency with both, or do you lean more to towards one than the other?

Does being a good fighter help with your forms, or does it for you work the other way around?

Do you have good form when fighting and not so much when doing katas?

Does your fighting match or resemble your forms?

Be formless, does this apply to you when fighting?


I use my forms heavily in my fighting, intentionally. At long range, that doesn't happen much, but once I get into close range, I use kata methods almost exclusively. Now, I tend to think that my focus on application makes my kata a bit on the "ugly" side, but it's functional.
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Alan Armstrong
Black Belt
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Joined: 28 Feb 2016
Posts: 2193


PostPosted: Thu May 02, 2019 1:24 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Wastelander wrote:
Alan Armstrong wrote:
Fighting vs forms, are you equally matched in proficiency with both, or do you lean more to towards one than the other?

Does being a good fighter help with your forms, or does it for you work the other way around?

Do you have good form when fighting and not so much when doing katas?

Does your fighting match or resemble your forms?

Be formless, does this apply to you when fighting?


I use my forms heavily in my fighting, intentionally. At long range, that doesn't happen much, but once I get into close range, I use kata methods almost exclusively. Now, I tend to think that my focus on application makes my kata a bit on the "ugly" side, but it's functional.
Perhaps this is due to having to make many types of adjustments, such as distance, timing, including opponent's size and skill level, in sparring.

As opposed to when doing katas, where there is no need or urgency to consider these factors.

Katas usually translates better in to self defence than sparring.
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Alan Armstrong
Black Belt
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Joined: 28 Feb 2016
Posts: 2193


PostPosted: Fri May 03, 2019 3:56 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

The way I understand Kata, is that it is a method to improve "form"

As the meaning of Kata has lost its original intent and has become something more resembling entertainment and aesthetics, that has gained a status separate from fighting abilities and applications.
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sensei8
KF Sensei
KF Sensei

Joined: 23 Feb 2008
Posts: 14404
Location: Houston, TX
Styles: Shindokan Saitou-ryu [Shuri-te/Okinawa-te based]

PostPosted: Fri May 03, 2019 7:47 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Alan Armstrong wrote:
The reason for this post, might be of interest for some.

As I swim in a pool and sprint on a track.

My form when swimming is closer to drowning than moving, whilst sprinting I'm likened to a greyhound dog on a race track.


Which brings up the question to myself, why my form so obviously bad at one and good at another.

Where as participation in my last TKD tournament in my ancient past history, my kata didn't reach past the first level whilst in sparing I won the gold.

Which raises the introspective point or question, at why such a great difference between my form and sparing abilities; or anyone else's for that matter.

As there are those that specialise in forms and others in fighting.

Maybe you're a by far better runner than swimming; lending into your strengths and not your weaknesses. Therefore, you might be a far better at sparring, than at the forms.

The forms are either appealing or they're not, which sways the judges, whereas, in sparring, a point is a point within those parameters of which you earn that point or you don't...different judges mindset.

In the forms, the judges are looking at so many elements of said form to reach their score....that's not so important with the judges in sparring...hit or be hit whereas the judges are looking for a clean and decisive point.

So, are you better at forms or at sparring?!

Imho!!






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Wastelander
KF Sensei
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Joined: 18 Oct 2010
Posts: 2431
Location: Phoenix, AZ
Styles: Shorin-Ryu, Shuri-Ryu, Judo, KishimotoDi

PostPosted: Sun May 05, 2019 9:13 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Alan Armstrong wrote:
Wastelander wrote:
Alan Armstrong wrote:
Fighting vs forms, are you equally matched in proficiency with both, or do you lean more to towards one than the other?

Does being a good fighter help with your forms, or does it for you work the other way around?

Do you have good form when fighting and not so much when doing katas?

Does your fighting match or resemble your forms?

Be formless, does this apply to you when fighting?


I use my forms heavily in my fighting, intentionally. At long range, that doesn't happen much, but once I get into close range, I use kata methods almost exclusively. Now, I tend to think that my focus on application makes my kata a bit on the "ugly" side, but it's functional.
Perhaps this is due to having to make many types of adjustments, such as distance, timing, including opponent's size and skill level, in sparring.

As opposed to when doing katas, where there is no need or urgency to consider these factors.

Katas usually translates better in to self defence than sparring.


Yes, I would say it is. And kata was developed for recording self defense and peacekeeping methods, so of course it is better suited to that than what most people consider "sparring." I just have a much broader view on what "sparring" is than most
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Kishimoto-Di | 2014-Present | Sensei: Ulf Karlsson
Shorin-Ryu | 2010-Present: Nidan | Sensei: Richard Poage, Jeff Allred
Shuri-Ryu | 2006-2010: Sankyu | Sensei: Joey Johnston, Joe Walker
Judo | 2007-2010: Gokyu | Sensei: Joe Walker, Adrian Rivera
My Blog: www.karateobsession.com
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gatlancap
White Belt
White Belt

Joined: 05 May 2019
Posts: 1


PostPosted: Sun May 05, 2019 10:32 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hi All, I know this isn't technically the right place, but I can't seem to find a forum that answers my question. Where do you find good talented instructors? I looked on the usual sites and there are no job listings. Anyone have any thoughts?

Thanks!
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sensei8
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Joined: 23 Feb 2008
Posts: 14404
Location: Houston, TX
Styles: Shindokan Saitou-ryu [Shuri-te/Okinawa-te based]

PostPosted: Tue May 07, 2019 9:41 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

gatlancap wrote:
Hi All, I know this isn't technically the right place, but I can't seem to find a forum that answers my question. Where do you find good talented instructors? I looked on the usual sites and there are no job listings. Anyone have any thoughts?

Thanks!

Welcome to KF, gatlancap; glad that you're here!!

Where do you find god talented instructors??

By visiting each and every MA school, more than one time, and perhaps, that diamond in the rough might arise. Even then, that might not be easy, nor simple as one might imagine.



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JazzKicker
Orange Belt
Orange Belt

Joined: 07 Aug 2017
Posts: 128
Location: NJ
Styles: JKD, TSD, MMA

PostPosted: Mon May 13, 2019 1:19 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

sensei8 wrote:
Fighting, if ever, rarely duplicates forms. Sure, during fighting, the techniques of said form are present, but even then, they don't duplicate said form. Why?? Applications!!

Applications aren't used often when fighting, except the surface techniques; kick, punch, strike, and block from their basic cores. The applications aren't always awakened in the practitioner for a many reasons: Fear, nervousness, uncertainty, believe, effectiveness, lack of conformity, and so on and so forth.

Anything and everything is dependent on the practitioner and NOT the style!!

If forms don't duplicate fighting, then fighting don't duplicate forms; we humans just aren't built that way. In our mind, our fighting is fighting, and forms are forms; they are of separate mindsets.

I mean look at kicking, for example, kicks in forms are focused and crisp, whereas in fighting kicks are sloppy and an afterthought...that's seen in tournaments, and even worse of all places, in the dojo/dojang/school of MA.

We don't stand or move or turn or like anything found in said form when we fight. The forms birth fighting, but side by side, one doesn't look the same as the other. Even watching Senior Dan's, their fighting doesn't imitate their forms and vise versa.

Perhaps, one doesn't compliment the other as it should!!

Imho!!





^ This! ^

It's what's so inconsistent about traditional styles. You are taught and practice forms to perfection, then put on sparring gear and do something completely different. Nobody does a traditional high block or front stance when they spar. Conversely, lots of kicks, at least in Korean styles, never show up in forms.

I don't overthink it, though. I like practicing forms.
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