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Get'erDone
Yellow Belt
Joined: 23 May 2012
Posts: 37
Styles: Goju-Ryu, Kyukoshin, Judo and Self-Defense
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 Posted: Fri Jun 01, 2012 12:40 am Post subject: |
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| If the person has determined they'll attack no matter what, won't back down and a welcoming adrenaline rush, a broken finger probably have the desired outcome. They'll certainly feel it after the adrenaline rush is over, assuming they don't feel it immediately, however, depending on the situation that's too late. I've had broken toes, fingers, arms, wrists, dislocated thumbs and a variety of other injuries from sparring or fights and felt not much pain until afterward. |
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shadowspawn
Orange Belt
Joined: 09 Mar 2012
Posts: 108
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| Posted: Tue Jun 19, 2012 9:47 pm Post subject: |
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| Get'erDone wrote: |
| If the person has determined they'll attack no matter what, won't back down and a welcoming adrenaline rush, a broken finger probably have the desired outcome. They'll certainly feel it after the adrenaline rush is over, assuming they don't feel it immediately, however, depending on the situation that's too late. I've had broken toes, fingers, arms, wrists, dislocated thumbs and a variety of other injuries from sparring or fights and felt not much pain until afterward. |
This could be said about any degree of pain. Anything that doesn't incapacitate them can't be said to be safe to use in a true self defense situation. This includes thigh kicks, hair pulling, biting, etc. The safest thing to do is to strike them in such a way that they will be physically incapable of attacking you. For example, snap his knee and run. He can try to chase after you with a broken leg, despite the pain, but he won't get very far. Break his hand and what? He'll just hit you with his other hand LOL |
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darksoul
Purple Belt
Joined: 19 Jul 2012
Posts: 548
Location: Montréal, QC, Canada
Styles: Shaolin Kempo
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| Posted: Tue Jul 31, 2012 8:45 am Post subject: |
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| DWx wrote: |
Another question, 
If the person you were trying to mug broke your finger would you let go?
Reason I ask is another guy I sometimes train with was doing a similar exercise and someone's response to being grabbed like that was to try to bite him. He said not to do it because if it was him that'd hurt but just make him angry and he'd probably start hitting her (if he wasn't already) in response. |
Broken fingers are excruciatingly painful. I'd let go for sure.
A bite does not hurt nearly as much as a break. From what's been told to me (I've never broken anything) it's like being stabbed from within by a white-hot, constantly twisting knife.
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Shodan - Shaolin Kempo
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jaypo
Purple Belt
Joined: 26 Apr 2012
Posts: 520
Styles: Shotokan, Shorin Ryu
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| Posted: Tue Jul 31, 2012 9:03 am Post subject: |
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I broke my finger while testing for a belt, and I kept going until I was finished. When the adrenaline wore off, it hurt, but it didn't affect me while I was sparring. So I'd say that a finger break would not be as effective as, say, a well placed side kick to the knee or a strike to the throat. Also, a hit to the solar plexus (sp?) will take the wind out of someone and incapacitate them at least long enough for you to exit the situation.
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Seek Perfection of Character
Be Faithful
Endeavor
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Refrain from violent behavior. |
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Groinstrike
Pre-Black Belt
Joined: 26 Oct 2010
Posts: 923
Location: Richland County
Styles: Bujin Bugei Jutsu, Krav Maga, Jeet Kune Do, BJJ M
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| Posted: Sat Aug 04, 2012 8:42 pm Post subject: |
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| Get'erDone wrote: |
| If the person has determined they'll attack no matter what, won't back down and a welcoming adrenaline rush, a broken finger probably have the desired outcome. They'll certainly feel it after the adrenaline rush is over, assuming they don't feel it immediately, however, depending on the situation that's too late. I've had broken toes, fingers, arms, wrists, dislocated thumbs and a variety of other injuries from sparring or fights and felt not much pain until afterward. |
Breaking their finger, maybe they keep fighting. Splitting their hand in two and making them be known as LOBSTERBOY the rest of their days, i will say yes. |
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Liver Punch
Green Belt
Joined: 22 Nov 2010
Posts: 417
Location: Snake Mountain
Styles: Bujin Bugei Jutsu, Pro Wrestling, Gun-Fu
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| Posted: Sat Aug 04, 2012 9:58 pm Post subject: |
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I suppose that almost any technique that exists, someone has been on the receiving end of and kept coming. I've been kicked, punched, I mean...whatever, and kept attacking.
If fingers break don't work, then neither do throat strikes...I'll gladly take a throat strike, but would respectfully pass on someone breaking my fingers.
The only technique that seems to be effective 100% of the time is hitting someone with your car, or maybe a few times with a shovel...
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"A gun is a tool. Like a butcher knife or a harpoon, or uhh... an alligator."
― Homer, The Simpsons |
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DWx
Black Belt
Joined: 17 Jan 2007
Posts: 6455
Location: UK
Styles: Tae Kwon Do & Yang family Tai Chi
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| Posted: Sun Aug 05, 2012 10:41 am Post subject: |
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| Liver Punch wrote: |
I suppose that almost any technique that exists, someone has been on the receiving end of and kept coming. I've been kicked, punched, I mean...whatever, and kept attacking.
If fingers break don't work, then neither do throat strikes...I'll gladly take a throat strike, but would respectfully pass on someone breaking my fingers.
The only technique that seems to be effective 100% of the time is hitting someone with your car, or maybe a few times with a shovel... |
I guess this is something to bear in mind in any situation; you just don't know what it will take to bring them down. However shouldn't this mean that you should start to evaluate how likely your attacks are going to do some damage and train the more effective ones? From what people have said in this thread, it's a bit hit and miss whether finger breaks would stop them from continuing to attack. But finger breaks are largely relying on the attacker to respond to the pain. Break somebody's arm or dislocate it and even if they can carry on with the pain, that arm isn't going to be of much use.
But on the subject of broken fingers, one of the GB female Judoka's fought in the -78 kg final a broken thumb.
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"Everything has its beauty, but not everyone sees it." ~ Confucius |
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Liver Punch
Green Belt
Joined: 22 Nov 2010
Posts: 417
Location: Snake Mountain
Styles: Bujin Bugei Jutsu, Pro Wrestling, Gun-Fu
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| Posted: Sun Aug 05, 2012 3:29 pm Post subject: |
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| DWx wrote: |
| it's a bit hit and miss whether finger breaks would stop them from continuing to attack. |
I think that's exactly why most martial arts that are tailor-made for self defense stress the need for chaining attacks until there is no longer a threat.
| DWx wrote: |
| However shouldn't this mean that you should start to evaluate how likely your attacks are going to do some damage and train the more effective ones? |
Is there a better technique than finger breaks? Yes. Does that mean that if you've got their fingers you should let go of them because there are better techniques for other parts of their body? Of course not. Break their fingers and assess the situation. Did the finger break cause them to run off crying? If yes, then it worked, if not then move onto something else.
It's the same thing with the whole "do eye pokes work" debate. I'm a proponent of eye pokes and gouges. Does this mean that I'll give up a fully sunk in rear naked choke to poke at your eyes? Of course not. But if an eye attack is handy, I'll go to it. What is their response going to be to defend it - shut their eyes? That's great, they've defended my eye attack by closing their eyes...in the middle of a fight! As long as my reaction to that is to employ a technique that takes advantage of their self-imposed blindness, then it worked just fine.
If you've got their fingers, break them. If that doesn't stop them you can move to a wrist lock, a take down, or whatever else presents itself. In no way, shape or form does my first technique failing constitute an inability for me to hit them in the face.
In closing, do finger breaks work? Sometimes. Do finger breaks followed by a strike to the throat, headbutt to the nose, a kick to the groin, a stomp to the inside of the knee, a takedown, and an armbar work? Probably.
_________________
"A gun is a tool. Like a butcher knife or a harpoon, or uhh... an alligator."
― Homer, The Simpsons |
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JusticeZero
Black Belt
Joined: 02 Apr 2005
Posts: 2166
Location: AK
Styles: Capoeira Angola
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| Posted: Mon Aug 06, 2012 12:17 am Post subject: |
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| Liver Punch wrote: |
| Break their fingers and assess the situation. Did the finger break cause them to run off crying? If yes, then it worked, if not then move onto something else. |
I would go further and state that you should evaluate while the followup is being executed, rather than pausing to evaluate.
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"Anything worth doing is worth doing badly." - Baleia |
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Liver Punch
Green Belt
Joined: 22 Nov 2010
Posts: 417
Location: Snake Mountain
Styles: Bujin Bugei Jutsu, Pro Wrestling, Gun-Fu
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| Posted: Mon Aug 06, 2012 12:31 am Post subject: |
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I agree completely - unless they ran off crying, in which case you probably shouldn't give chase to use a follow-up. 
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"A gun is a tool. Like a butcher knife or a harpoon, or uhh... an alligator."
― Homer, The Simpsons |
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on the post.
