Add KarateForums.com
Username:    Password:
Remember Me?    
   I Lost My Password!
Post new topic   Reply to topic    KarateForums.com Forum Index -> Weapons
Goto page 1, 2  Next
 See a User Guidelines violation? Press on the post.
Author Message

MAfreak
Yellow Belt
Yellow Belt

Joined: 01 Feb 2016
Posts: 96
Location: Germany

PostPosted: Sun Mar 13, 2016 1:31 pm    Post subject: footwork in swords fighting Reply with quote

do you always have your right foot in front in sword fighting?
i visited a kenjutsu kata seminar and all the time in this "southpaw" stance was very confusing to me and i wouldn't use it in a real fight.
as i saw from my self study before in hapkido forms they switch sometimes to an "orthodox" stance so this seems to make more sense for right hander training.
however from what i thought the sword thrust is like the difference between a jab and a cross punch, first is faster but weaker and the kenjutsu trainer said also it would be slower if one would do it from the "orthodox" stance. well it might be legit to be faster but weaker with a sharp blade but for me i'd like to keep my footwork-habits because otherwise i could be confused in a real fighting situation with or without weapons.
what are your thoughts and experiences?
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message

tallgeese
KF Sensei
KF Sensei

Joined: 04 May 2008
Posts: 6852
Location: McHenry County, IL
Styles: Brazilian Jiu Jitsu, Bujin Bugei Jutsu, Gokei Ryu Kempo Jutsu, MMA, Shootfighting, boxing, kickboxing, JKD, Pekiti Tersia Kali

PostPosted: Thu Mar 24, 2016 1:23 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

In PTK we do most all of our work out of a right lead. However, the footwork is VERY fluid and designed to be able to change direction. That said, a vast majority of the foot work is designed around the right lead. Most times, we're utilizing a shorter blade, the 15-18 inch range for the classical ginuting. This means that keeping the weapon in the dominant hand (for most of us) makes ranging, blading, and distance manipulation easier. Which in turn leads to a better reading of timing.

The FMAs are designed to function regardless of weapon type or unarmed. So, in the case of PTK the right is also lead during unarmed encounters. That said, the mechanics are EXACTLY the same so there's no confusion. It's one of the great strengths of the FMAs when taught correctly.

I've done other stand up arts for YEARS. I find it very easy to pick an choose per the situation. Combat will define your position in stance based on the biomechanics of the situation.

For instance, once I close to grappling range in an arrest environment, I really like my left forward from rep after rep in jiu jitsu. From the tie up, this is far easier for me. So, as soon as we go chest to chest, my footwork switches. It's not a thought or decision. It just happens and I'm generally not even aware of it until the takedown occurs.

I'm not saying it's right or wrong, just my experience based on a unique perspective. Just as everyone else will have.

For me, when a blade becomes involved, the right forward is the way to go based on the factors I stated earlier. I think to many times we get caught up in potential confusion and what we should be doing is just letting the body guide us to the proper biomechanics answer. This only occurs with training in each disciple, but a good discipline will have the answers to those questions built in.
_________________
http://alphajiujitsu.com/
https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCJhRVuwbm__LwXPvFMReMww
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail Yahoo Messenger

Oshishinobu
Orange Belt
Orange Belt

Joined: 09 Apr 2015
Posts: 122
Location: Vancouver, WA
Styles: ISKF Shotokan Karate, Italian Longsword, Kickboxing

PostPosted: Thu Mar 24, 2016 1:34 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I think it all depends on the style like is military saber you stay pretty much sword forward i.e. same side forward, but in say longsword you do passing steps. In koryu I think it is the same but I only have experience in European sword.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message

Oshishinobu
Orange Belt
Orange Belt

Joined: 09 Apr 2015
Posts: 122
Location: Vancouver, WA
Styles: ISKF Shotokan Karate, Italian Longsword, Kickboxing

PostPosted: Thu Mar 24, 2016 3:37 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I will say when dealing with a blade being strong or weak maters very little. speed and correct movements matter more. also the hand protection the sword offers. a cross guard on say a European arming/long sword will dictate a orthodox stance taking away the target of the hands from the opponent, but say with a more complex hilt like say a rapier or a saber the hand is better protected and the sword is now in front to allow quicker cuts and parries. personally i would treat a katana much like a arming/long sword, the tsuba offers very little in the way of hand protection in fact one of the most common strikes in kendo is kote or wrist.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message

MAfreak
Yellow Belt
Yellow Belt

Joined: 01 Feb 2016
Posts: 96
Location: Germany

PostPosted: Sat Mar 26, 2016 1:07 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

yes the katana is the equivalent to the longsword.
since i personally don't focus on perfection in what a specific style wants to force me, i also would adapt european sword fighting basics when training japanese sword. like i did with the korean hapkido sword style which fits me more than what i saw in the japanese. but maybe it was just that specific kata and others are more flexible.

@tallgeese what is PTK and what is FMA? i know fma just als shortcut for "fake martial arts".
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message

Oshishinobu
Orange Belt
Orange Belt

Joined: 09 Apr 2015
Posts: 122
Location: Vancouver, WA
Styles: ISKF Shotokan Karate, Italian Longsword, Kickboxing

PostPosted: Sun Mar 27, 2016 10:58 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

FMA is short for Filipino martial arts
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message

tallgeese
KF Sensei
KF Sensei

Joined: 04 May 2008
Posts: 6852
Location: McHenry County, IL
Styles: Brazilian Jiu Jitsu, Bujin Bugei Jutsu, Gokei Ryu Kempo Jutsu, MMA, Shootfighting, boxing, kickboxing, JKD, Pekiti Tersia Kali

PostPosted: Sat Apr 02, 2016 4:58 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

MAfreak wrote:
yes the katana is the equivalent to the longsword.
since i personally don't focus on perfection in what a specific style wants to force me, i also would adapt european sword fighting basics when training japanese sword. like i did with the korean hapkido sword style which fits me more than what i saw in the japanese. but maybe it was just that specific kata and others are more flexible.

@tallgeese what is PTK and what is FMA? i know fma just als shortcut for "fake martial arts".


Oshishinobu got the FMA part below. The PTK is short for Pekiti Tersia Kali. It's a specific brand of FMA from Grand Tuhon's lineage. Much like Karate, there are actually several styles of Kali (or Arnis or Escrima, again largely interchangeable large scale labeling) that each have their own particle set of drills, principles, etc. Despite some overlap.
_________________
http://alphajiujitsu.com/
https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCJhRVuwbm__LwXPvFMReMww
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail Yahoo Messenger

yamesu
Black Belt
Black Belt

Joined: 13 Jul 2004
Posts: 1391
Location: Oceania <-> Asia
Styles: Kyokushin. MT. Arnis. Judo. JediMantre.

PostPosted: Sat Apr 02, 2016 6:40 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Having done kendo, kenjutsu and Arnis for some time, right leg forward is the norm in all of them. In essence, because if your right handed, the right side will be your dominant side.

Tallgeese nailed it with the Kali information. It is the same in Arnis.
It was painful to force right side forward at first, until you learn that having your weapon hand (if single stick, single knife or machete) closer to your opponent and in your dominant hand is far more beneficial than holding an empty (defensive) hand forward and the attacking hand back. The angling of the body is especially important here, as you want to minimise opportunities for the blade to contact vital points along the centreline, or, minimise them to one side of the body for ease in defending.

When holding a katana, your right hand is generally at the tsuba (hilt), with the left hand at the kashira (pommel). It may not seem like much, but having your shoulder and hip alignment slightly forward on the right side here gives a small amount more reach, and you are not "tangling" yourself by having your upper hand battle the position of your angled hips.
For those familiar with karate, its like having to throw a gyaku tsuki from zenkustu dashi, instead of an oi tuski.
There is greater ease and precision with right hand higher and right leg forward, and slight;y more reach.

All of these have translated directly to MT and Kyokushin for me too. I start in a left forward position, but as soon as the sparring starts, I don't even think about my footing (unless lining up for a heavy kick), as it just becomes transitioning between left and right. It has definitely given me more fluidity.
_________________
"We did not inherit this earth from our parents.
We are borrowing it from our children."
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message

Tempest
Green Belt
Green Belt

Joined: 31 Aug 2006
Posts: 422
Location: Tulsa, OK
Styles: Judo, HEMA

PostPosted: Sat Sep 17, 2016 8:14 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
do you always have your right foot in front in sword fighting?


Sort of.... sometimes. In the Lichtenaur tradition of German longsword, no.

In most single hand sword systems, yes unless you are either closing to grapple or have something in your off hand.

Many systems also have specific places for your off hand to be that either keep it out of the way or ready for use in grappling or both.
_________________
Think first, act second, and stop getting the two confused.

darsksideofthemat.blogspot.com
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message

MatsuShinshii
Black Belt
Black Belt

Joined: 15 Aug 2016
Posts: 1423
Location: Kentucky
Styles: Machimura Suidi Rokudan, Ryukyu Kenpo, Kobudo, Judo

PostPosted: Tue Sep 20, 2016 3:31 pm    Post subject: Re: footwork in swords fighting Reply with quote

MAfreak wrote:
do you always have your right foot in front in sword fighting?
i visited a kenjutsu kata seminar and all the time in this "southpaw" stance was very confusing to me and i wouldn't use it in a real fight.


Yes. The reason is quite simple and can be answered by trying ti the opposite way. If you are right handed it does not work as well leading with you left foot. Your body is out of alignment.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Display posts from previous:   
Post new topic   Reply to topic    KarateForums.com Forum Index -> Weapons All times are GMT - 6 Hours
Goto page 1, 2  Next
Page 1 of 2
Jump to:  
You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum


< Advertising - Contact - Disclosure Policy - Staff - User Guidelines >