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JR 137
KF Sempai
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Joined: 10 May 2015
Posts: 2389
Location: In the dojo
Styles: Seido Juku

PostPosted: Tue Sep 25, 2018 3:42 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Iíve been trying to figure out what techniques really arenít necessary, and Iím honestly not coming up with much.

To bring another thread here, too many kata. Thereís a balance between enough and too much.

For me personally, I could do without some of the open hand strikes - nukite/spear hand, ippon nukite (one finger strike), stuff like that. Iím never going to condition my hands for stuff like that to be effective, and I donít think 90% of the people out there will either.

Iíd say eliminate the flashy kicks like spinning and jumping kicks, but theyíre great for developing athleticism and everything that goes with it. It would be like eliminating strength training because movements like squats donít have a direct fighting application.
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MatsuShinshii
Black Belt
Black Belt

Joined: 15 Aug 2016
Posts: 1423
Location: Kentucky
Styles: Machimura Suidi Rokudan, Ryukyu Kenpo, Kobudo, Judo

PostPosted: Tue Sep 25, 2018 4:07 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

1. Fat Cobra stole my thunder with Ego. But I totally agree.
2. Titles other than teacher (Shinshii/Sensei). Kinda goes along with ego but not entirely.
3. JR 137 stole my thunder with too many Kata's. Totally agree.
4. Techniques that do not work. Have too many moves (expect your opponent to stand still and allow you to apply). So called "self defense" techniques that gives the student the belief that they can some how pull a move that will keep them safe from bullets and blades. Example; cross block to a downward knife attack. If this needs explaining... well you get the gist.
5. Mysticism; The whole ninja dust, smoke and mirrors, no touch KO nonsense that gives ALL TMA's a bad name.
6. McDojo's; teaching crap for money. Giving belts based on how much you pay. Getting a black belt in a year (again based on payment not skills/knowledge.)
7. Frauds. Those that have no or limited experience but pass themselves off as experts.
8. Western Soke. Come on, how many Soke/Judan can one country have? We have more than Japan and Okinawa combined, for that matter more than there are arts. Ever wander how that works out. How can there be 4 Soke for one art? Visit the grand old USA and you can find out. Oh and this does go along to some degree with number 7. That fact hasn't escaped me.

All of these I could do without but 5 thru 8 are killing the TMA's community and bringing questions as to effectiveness vs other forms of combat arts which casts a shadow on ALL of us and our arts. So these I could really do without.
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JR 137
KF Sempai
KF Sempai

Joined: 10 May 2015
Posts: 2389
Location: In the dojo
Styles: Seido Juku

PostPosted: Tue Sep 25, 2018 7:18 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

MatsuShinshii wrote:
1. Fat Cobra stole my thunder with Ego. But I totally agree.
2. Titles other than teacher (Shinshii/Sensei). Kinda goes along with ego but not entirely.
3. JR 137 stole my thunder with too many Kata's. Totally agree.
4. Techniques that do not work. Have too many moves (expect your opponent to stand still and allow you to apply). So called "self defense" techniques that gives the student the belief that they can some how pull a move that will keep them safe from bullets and blades. Example; cross block to a downward knife attack. If this needs explaining... well you get the gist.
5. Mysticism; The whole ninja dust, smoke and mirrors, no touch KO nonsense that gives ALL TMA's a bad name.
6. McDojo's; teaching crap for money. Giving belts based on how much you pay. Getting a black belt in a year (again based on payment not skills/knowledge.)
7. Frauds. Those that have no or limited experience but pass themselves off as experts.
8. Western Soke. Come on, how many Soke/Judan can one country have? We have more than Japan and Okinawa combined, for that matter more than there are arts. Ever wander how that works out. How can there be 4 Soke for one art? Visit the grand old USA and you can find out. Oh and this does go along to some degree with number 7. That fact hasn't escaped me.

All of these I could do without but 5 thru 8 are killing the TMA's community and bringing questions as to effectiveness vs other forms of combat arts which casts a shadow on ALL of us and our arts. So these I could really do without.


I was thinking solely along the lines of techniques, but I agree with everything you said. Your ďWestern SokeĒ reminded me of something Iíve seen a few times...

A guy trains under a pretty well known teacher from Japan or Okinawa. Leaves at perhaps nidan-sandan. Trains under another one, and the same thing. And another one and again the same thing. Sometimes theyíre all the same art but different styles/organizations, such as karate. Sometimes a few are the same, and one will be a grappling art and/or a sword art.

Then somehow after running his own school for a few years, heís surpassed every teacher heís ever had in rank. His highest teacher was perhaps 8th dan, the highest anyoneís awarded him was something like 4th dan, and now heís 9th dan (the humble one ), or 10th dan.

Sure. Then again, maybe they add up all the stripes from all the ones they were given and put them all on one belt. And maybe add one more because itís been a while since they promoted in any of those arts individually. Dan ranking is cumulative after all
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sensei8
KF Sensei
KF Sensei

Joined: 23 Feb 2008
Posts: 14611
Location: Houston, TX
Styles: Shindokan Saitou-ryu [Shuri-te/Okinawa-te based]

PostPosted: Tue Sep 25, 2018 10:08 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

MA politics can be the bane of existence, and I wish politics could be abolished for once and for all from the MA. While the MA can do without any politics, it's an unfortunate reality for any Governing Body, even the most recognized Governing Body has its own difficulties. After all, nothing is perfect.

What Governing Bodies desperately need are unwavering integrity from its leadership across the board in all departments without any ambiguity. This, right here, isn't written in granite, nor is it ever guaranteed, but must have the trust and faith from its Student Body; without that, the Governing Body is an empty shell with no conscience whatsoever.

Titles and the like, have been relegated to the value of the one penny candy that's found stuck to the bottom of one passerby's shoe because of, as it's already been mentioned by several here, ego.

The legitimate rank that they've honestly earned, that seems to have lost its luster, just isn't good enough for them anymore, so, for whatever sick and twisted reason(s), they invent a phantom Senior Dan Rank/Title, for the hopes that it'll somehow magically satisfactorily fulfill their vacant and desperate and lonely existence...but it never will...no matter how hard they try to scrub and scrub that illegitimate stain away...they never ever will.

That's for some, but not for others!!




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sensei8
KF Sensei
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Joined: 23 Feb 2008
Posts: 14611
Location: Houston, TX
Styles: Shindokan Saitou-ryu [Shuri-te/Okinawa-te based]

PostPosted: Tue Sep 25, 2018 10:50 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Shindokan does have its fair, although small amount, share of techniques that aren't that important. Should the powers that be ever discard those few Kihon, it wouldn't derail its effectiveness whatsoever.

I call these Kihon...less attractive; not less effective, but without the same romance that I have for the...most attractive Kihon, I prefer. While the less attractive Kihon is what it is, I've kept them in my back pocket for their very special resurrection. After all, one doesn't throw the car away just because it has an less attractive paint job...right!?!

Some of the less attractive Kihon, that I believe aren't that important, are...

1. Bent wrist block
2. One/two finger strike
3. Attention Stance
4. Back Stance
5. Any X-Block, except upper
6. Etc.

But what's one to do?? Nothing...use them...don't use them...but never forget them.




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singularity6
Pre-Black Belt
Pre-Black Belt

Joined: 26 Jun 2017
Posts: 958
Location: Michigan
Styles: Jidokwan Taekwondo and Hapkido, Yoshokai Aikido, ZNIR Iaido, Kendo

PostPosted: Wed Sep 26, 2018 5:32 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hmmm... We use x-blocks quite a bit to defend against knives!

As far as stuff that's not all that useful that I've learned so far. Hmmm... Can't think of much! Everything has its practicality - maybe not for actual use on the street, but for training purposes.

Spear hand is great! I use it to torture my nephews and my wife all the time!
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JR 137
KF Sempai
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Joined: 10 May 2015
Posts: 2389
Location: In the dojo
Styles: Seido Juku

PostPosted: Wed Sep 26, 2018 11:12 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

singularity6 wrote:

Spear hand is great! I use it to torture my nephews and my wife all the time!


I do too, only my wife didnít give the reaction I was looking for, so I stopped. I still use it one my little ones.

Beyond that, just no. I tried it lightly on a heavy bag. Needless to say, I wonít be using it if someone attacks me.
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JR 137
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Posts: 2389
Location: In the dojo
Styles: Seido Juku

PostPosted: Wed Sep 26, 2018 11:15 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

sensei8 wrote:
Shindokan does have its fair, although small amount, share of techniques that aren't that important. Should the powers that be ever discard those few Kihon, it wouldn't derail its effectiveness whatsoever.

I call these Kihon...less attractive; not less effective, but without the same romance that I have for the...most attractive Kihon, I prefer. While the less attractive Kihon is what it is, I've kept them in my back pocket for their very special resurrection. After all, one doesn't throw the car away just because it has an less attractive paint job...right!?!

Some of the less attractive Kihon, that I believe aren't that important, are...

1. Bent wrist block
2. One/two finger strike
3. Attention Stance
4. Back Stance
5. Any X-Block, except upper
6. Etc.

But what's one to do?? Nothing...use them...don't use them...but never forget them.




I was going to say the bent wrist/koken block, but Iíve seen it used in bunkai as a wrist grab release. Think Tensho and Yantsu kata. Yantsu isnít very common outside of Kyokushin and its offshoots though. Iíve seen a Shito-Ryu school do it under the name Ansan.
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MatsuShinshii
Black Belt
Black Belt

Joined: 15 Aug 2016
Posts: 1423
Location: Kentucky
Styles: Machimura Suidi Rokudan, Ryukyu Kenpo, Kobudo, Judo

PostPosted: Wed Sep 26, 2018 3:03 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

singularity6 wrote:
Hmmm... We use x-blocks quite a bit to defend against knives!


I know. Many, many teachers teach this technique against a knife. Many high grade teachers swear by it. But they have never put it to use in real life.

If utilized against a novice it may work but the chances are high you get cut. Used against someone with any level of training... well lets just say that will at the very least end up in the hospital with stitches, that's if the attacker is squeamish and stops after seeing your blood.

Don't take my word for it. Attend any knife fighting class and you will realize that, blocking in general, against a skilled person with a blade ends in tragedy. Have your Uke attack you at full speed and tell them to make it real. Use a lower grade with little experience, give them a marker, and just see what happens. I think you'll be surprised how many times they tag you. Don't wear your nice new Gi.

To be honest I was taught the same thing but after my time in the Corps and studying under a Filipino knife fighter I was able to convince my Shinshii to remove these techniques.

If you block an experienced knife fighter they will rip back as soon as they experience resistance and both of your arms/hands will be shredded. Hard to defend yourself at that point.
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The person who succeeds is not the one who holds back, fearing failure, nor the one who never fails-but the one who moves on in spite of failure.
Charles R. Swindoll
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sensei8
KF Sensei
KF Sensei

Joined: 23 Feb 2008
Posts: 14611
Location: Houston, TX
Styles: Shindokan Saitou-ryu [Shuri-te/Okinawa-te based]

PostPosted: Wed Sep 26, 2018 5:27 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

MatsuShinshii wrote:
singularity6 wrote:
Hmmm... We use x-blocks quite a bit to defend against knives!


I know. Many, many teachers teach this technique against a knife. Many high grade teachers swear by it. But they have never put it to use in real life.

If utilized against a novice it may work but the chances are high you get cut. Used against someone with any level of training... well lets just say that will at the very least end up in the hospital with stitches, that's if the attacker is squeamish and stops after seeing your blood.

Don't take my word for it. Attend any knife fighting class and you will realize that, blocking in general, against a skilled person with a blade ends in tragedy. Have your Uke attack you at full speed and tell them to make it real. Use a lower grade with little experience, give them a marker, and just see what happens. I think you'll be surprised how many times they tag you. Don't wear your nice new Gi.

To be honest I was taught the same thing but after my time in the Corps and studying under a Filipino knife fighter I was able to convince my Shinshii to remove these techniques.

If you block an experienced knife fighter they will rip back as soon as they experience resistance and both of your arms/hands will be shredded. Hard to defend yourself at that point.

Solid post!!

I'd never ever use many blocking techniques against a knife, for the many reasons that you speak about here. Without a knife or the like, I'd use the upper x-block because it transitions into other applications.



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