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Chunmonchek
Orange Belt
Joined: 10 May 2012
Posts: 177
Styles: Goju
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 Posted: Wed Sep 26, 2018 6:29 pm Post subject: |
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| sensei8 wrote: |
| MatsuShinshii wrote: |
| singularity6 wrote: |
| Hmmm... We use x-blocks quite a bit to defend against knives! |
I know. Many, many teachers teach this technique against a knife. Many high grade teachers swear by it. But they have never put it to use in real life.
If utilized against a novice it may work but the chances are high you get cut. Used against someone with any level of training... well lets just say that will at the very least end up in the hospital with stitches, that's if the attacker is squeamish and stops after seeing your blood.
Don't take my word for it. Attend any knife fighting class and you will realize that, blocking in general, against a skilled person with a blade ends in tragedy. Have your Uke attack you at full speed and tell them to make it real. Use a lower grade with little experience, give them a marker, and just see what happens. I think you'll be surprised how many times they tag you. Don't wear your nice new Gi. 
To be honest I was taught the same thing but after my time in the Corps and studying under a Filipino knife fighter I was able to convince my Shinshii to remove these techniques.
If you block an experienced knife fighter they will rip back as soon as they experience resistance and both of your arms/hands will be shredded. Hard to defend yourself at that point. |
Solid post!!
I'd never ever use many blocking techniques against a knife, for the many reasons that you speak about here. Without a knife or the like, I'd use the upper x-block because it transitions into other applications.
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I was once told by a knife guy that there are no blocks other than mental blocks....
_________________
Chris |
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MatsuShinshii
Black Belt
Joined: 15 Aug 2016
Posts: 1423
Location: Kentucky
Styles: Machimura Suidi Rokudan, Ryukyu Kenpo, Kobudo, Judo
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| Posted: Thu Sep 27, 2018 3:22 pm Post subject: |
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| Chunmonchek wrote: |
| sensei8 wrote: |
| MatsuShinshii wrote: |
| singularity6 wrote: |
| Hmmm... We use x-blocks quite a bit to defend against knives! |
I know. Many, many teachers teach this technique against a knife. Many high grade teachers swear by it. But they have never put it to use in real life.
If utilized against a novice it may work but the chances are high you get cut. Used against someone with any level of training... well lets just say that will at the very least end up in the hospital with stitches, that's if the attacker is squeamish and stops after seeing your blood.
Don't take my word for it. Attend any knife fighting class and you will realize that, blocking in general, against a skilled person with a blade ends in tragedy. Have your Uke attack you at full speed and tell them to make it real. Use a lower grade with little experience, give them a marker, and just see what happens. I think you'll be surprised how many times they tag you. Don't wear your nice new Gi.
To be honest I was taught the same thing but after my time in the Corps and studying under a Filipino knife fighter I was able to convince my Shinshii to remove these techniques.
If you block an experienced knife fighter they will rip back as soon as they experience resistance and both of your arms/hands will be shredded. Hard to defend yourself at that point. |
Solid post!!
I'd never ever use many blocking techniques against a knife, for the many reasons that you speak about here. Without a knife or the like, I'd use the upper x-block because it transitions into other applications.
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I was once told by a knife guy that there are no blocks other than mental blocks.... |
Sound advice.
_________________
The person who succeeds is not the one who holds back, fearing failure, nor the one who never fails-but the one who moves on in spite of failure.
Charles R. Swindoll |
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singularity6
Pre-Black Belt
Joined: 26 Jun 2017
Posts: 958
Location: Michigan
Styles: Jidokwan Taekwondo and Hapkido, Yoshokai Aikido, ZNIR Iaido, Kendo
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| Posted: Sun Sep 30, 2018 11:12 am Post subject: |
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| MatsuShinshii wrote: |
| singularity6 wrote: |
| Hmmm... We use x-blocks quite a bit to defend against knives! |
I know. Many, many teachers teach this technique against a knife. Many high grade teachers swear by it. But they have never put it to use in real life.
If utilized against a novice it may work but the chances are high you get cut. Used against someone with any level of training... well lets just say that will at the very least end up in the hospital with stitches, that's if the attacker is squeamish and stops after seeing your blood.
Don't take my word for it. Attend any knife fighting class and you will realize that, blocking in general, against a skilled person with a blade ends in tragedy. Have your Uke attack you at full speed and tell them to make it real. Use a lower grade with little experience, give them a marker, and just see what happens. I think you'll be surprised how many times they tag you. Don't wear your nice new Gi.
To be honest I was taught the same thing but after my time in the Corps and studying under a Filipino knife fighter I was able to convince my Shinshii to remove these techniques.
If you block an experienced knife fighter they will rip back as soon as they experience resistance and both of your arms/hands will be shredded. Hard to defend yourself at that point. |
The likelihood of being attacked by an experienced knife fighter is pretty small.
The likelihood of getting cut in a knife fight, regardless of technique, is probably pretty high.
Best strategy? Don't get into a knife fight!
_________________
5th Geup Jidokwan Tae Kwon Do/Hap Ki Do
(Never officially tested in aikido, iaido or kendo) |
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MatsuShinshii
Black Belt
Joined: 15 Aug 2016
Posts: 1423
Location: Kentucky
Styles: Machimura Suidi Rokudan, Ryukyu Kenpo, Kobudo, Judo
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| Posted: Mon Oct 01, 2018 6:13 pm Post subject: |
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| singularity6 wrote: |
| MatsuShinshii wrote: |
| singularity6 wrote: |
| Hmmm... We use x-blocks quite a bit to defend against knives! |
I know. Many, many teachers teach this technique against a knife. Many high grade teachers swear by it. But they have never put it to use in real life.
If utilized against a novice it may work but the chances are high you get cut. Used against someone with any level of training... well lets just say that will at the very least end up in the hospital with stitches, that's if the attacker is squeamish and stops after seeing your blood.
Don't take my word for it. Attend any knife fighting class and you will realize that, blocking in general, against a skilled person with a blade ends in tragedy. Have your Uke attack you at full speed and tell them to make it real. Use a lower grade with little experience, give them a marker, and just see what happens. I think you'll be surprised how many times they tag you. Don't wear your nice new Gi.
To be honest I was taught the same thing but after my time in the Corps and studying under a Filipino knife fighter I was able to convince my Shinshii to remove these techniques.
If you block an experienced knife fighter they will rip back as soon as they experience resistance and both of your arms/hands will be shredded. Hard to defend yourself at that point. |
The likelihood of being attacked by an experienced knife fighter is pretty small.
The likelihood of getting cut in a knife fight, regardless of technique, is probably pretty high.
Best strategy? Don't get into a knife fight! |
Sound advice and true. No matter the degree of proficiency a person wielding a blade is a dangerous situation. Even the novice will hit it's target even by chance.
_________________
The person who succeeds is not the one who holds back, fearing failure, nor the one who never fails-but the one who moves on in spite of failure.
Charles R. Swindoll |
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RW
Green Belt
Joined: 07 Mar 2009
Posts: 426
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| Posted: Wed Oct 03, 2018 11:24 pm Post subject: |
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| MatsuShinshii wrote: |
| singularity6 wrote: |
| Hmmm... We use x-blocks quite a bit to defend against knives! |
I know. Many, many teachers teach this technique against a knife. Many high grade teachers swear by it. But they have never put it to use in real life.
If utilized against a novice it may work but the chances are high you get cut. Used against someone with any level of training... well lets just say that will at the very least end up in the hospital with stitches, that's if the attacker is squeamish and stops after seeing your blood.
Don't take my word for it. Attend any knife fighting class and you will realize that, blocking in general, against a skilled person with a blade ends in tragedy. Have your Uke attack you at full speed and tell them to make it real. Use a lower grade with little experience, give them a marker, and just see what happens. I think you'll be surprised how many times they tag you. Don't wear your nice new Gi.
To be honest I was taught the same thing but after my time in the Corps and studying under a Filipino knife fighter I was able to convince my Shinshii to remove these techniques.
If you block an experienced knife fighter they will rip back as soon as they experience resistance and both of your arms/hands will be shredded. Hard to defend yourself at that point. |
I agree with you. I've tried to make my sensei remove these techniques to no avail.
But the question is... what should we be doing instead of blocking? (other than running away ) |
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singularity6
Pre-Black Belt
Joined: 26 Jun 2017
Posts: 958
Location: Michigan
Styles: Jidokwan Taekwondo and Hapkido, Yoshokai Aikido, ZNIR Iaido, Kendo
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| Posted: Thu Oct 04, 2018 5:20 am Post subject: |
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| RW wrote: |
| MatsuShinshii wrote: |
| singularity6 wrote: |
| Hmmm... We use x-blocks quite a bit to defend against knives! |
I know. Many, many teachers teach this technique against a knife. Many high grade teachers swear by it. But they have never put it to use in real life.
If utilized against a novice it may work but the chances are high you get cut. Used against someone with any level of training... well lets just say that will at the very least end up in the hospital with stitches, that's if the attacker is squeamish and stops after seeing your blood.
Don't take my word for it. Attend any knife fighting class and you will realize that, blocking in general, against a skilled person with a blade ends in tragedy. Have your Uke attack you at full speed and tell them to make it real. Use a lower grade with little experience, give them a marker, and just see what happens. I think you'll be surprised how many times they tag you. Don't wear your nice new Gi.
To be honest I was taught the same thing but after my time in the Corps and studying under a Filipino knife fighter I was able to convince my Shinshii to remove these techniques.
If you block an experienced knife fighter they will rip back as soon as they experience resistance and both of your arms/hands will be shredded. Hard to defend yourself at that point. |
I agree with you. I've tried to make my sensei remove these techniques to no avail.
But the question is...what should we be doing instead of blocking? (other than running away ) |
Just punch him in the face.
_________________
5th Geup Jidokwan Tae Kwon Do/Hap Ki Do
(Never officially tested in aikido, iaido or kendo) |
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Fat Cobra
Green Belt
Joined: 14 Jul 2018
Posts: 372
Location: Watertown, NY
Styles: Ryukyu Kempo
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| Posted: Mon Oct 08, 2018 8:58 am Post subject: |
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I will respond with this answer:
I think everything is important IF...it is emphasized / explained the right way.
If not, then it is not important.
Examples (Note: this is not what happens in my school / style in particular, but things that are out there):
- Instructors who preach the Dojo Kun and Guiding Principles but don't live them themselves.
- In another forum (The Good, the Bad, and the Ugly) someone posted that forms done over and over were "Bad." Obviously, this person's instructor did not emphasize or show the student that value of forms.
- Pretending that something is not what it is...(Never hitting or getting hit in class and instructing someone that they are ready for self-defense. Never sparring, really sparring, but telling someone they are ready for competition, etc.).
_________________
Yondan in Ryukyu Kempo
Head of the Shubu Kan Dojo in Carthage, NY
(United Ryukyu Kempo Alliance) |
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bushido_man96
KF Sensei
Joined: 31 Mar 2006
Posts: 30188
Location: Hays, KS
Styles: Taekwondo, Combat Hapkido, Aikido, GRACIE, Police Krav Maga, SPEAR
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| Posted: Fri Oct 12, 2018 4:03 pm Post subject: |
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I think when it comes to knife defense, the best defense is a better offense, like distance and a gun that is already drawn. But, this isn't always practical (or I should say rarely is), so other options have to be sought.
I'm no expert, but its important to deflect that attacking limb to the best of your ability, and do what is possible to control the wrist of weapon hand. Then you've got to redirect that blade away from you, and get rid of it.
Just my thoughts.
_________________
www.haysgym.com
http://www.sunyis.com/
www.aikidoofnorthwestkansas.com |
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on the post.
