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nclearner
White Belt
White Belt

Joined: 16 Sep 2021
Posts: 1

Styles: Shotokan

PostPosted: Thu Sep 16, 2021 9:42 am    Post subject: Forgotten kata...ever hear of "Sanjutei"? Reply with quote

Hi everyone,

I'm trying to remember/identify a kata I used to perform many years ago. I trained at a Shotokan dojo which was not affiliated with ISKA, WKF, etc. It doesn't match anything I can find on BlackBeltWiki, so I'm confident it's not a Heian, Pinan, or anything like that. Here's what I've been able to piece together so far:

https://imgur.com/a/8eyzCgS

I remember it being a relatively short form, so I'm thinking I've got somewhere between 50 - 75% here. I can't seem to get any further, nor can I find anything like it online. It's entirely possible it's not a Shotokan form, and possibly not even karate. I don't recall it being part of my school's standard belt progression, so I may have picked it up from another school at a tournament, or something like that. Given that it's been nearly two decades, I've lost touch with my former training partners and my sensei passed away a few years ago, so if this is was a local kata I might just have to keep working on it and see if the memories come back. If this looks familiar at all, please do let me know!
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Zaine
Black Belt
Black Belt

Joined: 31 Aug 2005
Posts: 1783
Location: Dallas, TX
Styles: Matsumura-Seito, Shobayashi-Ryu, Shudokan, Long Fist, American Street Karate, Southern Mantis, HEMA

PostPosted: Thu Sep 16, 2021 10:38 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Unfortunately the only thing that comes up when I Googled it is your reddit post.

The kata itself is very reminiscent of Pinan, Passai, and Naihanchi. My guess is that it did not come from Shotokan.
The more I dug in, the more I became convinced of a couple of possibilities.

The first is that this is a kata that your sensei, or their sensei, created themselves. It has a very kung fu flair to it, so it's possible that they saw a kung fu form and translated it in some way.

The second is that this is from some form of kempo, which might be the case if you picked it up from a tournament. The only issue there is that I can't find a version of kempo that does a kata with that name. That said, there aren't a small amount of kempo styles.

Finally, the Sanjutei kata is an evolution or mix of 1 or more kata and this is the end result. It was done by a small number of schools and therefore hasn't made it to an online space as of yet.

While continuing your search, it might be worth it to look at Wing Chun or Shaolin forms to see if it was something a Shotokan teacher brought over. I looked through the Kempo stuff I could find and didn't see anything familiar.

Good luck.
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Wastelander
KF Sensei
KF Sensei

Joined: 18 Oct 2010
Posts: 2552
Location: Phoenix, AZ
Styles: Shorin-Ryu, Shuri-Ryu, Judo, KishimotoDi

PostPosted: Thu Sep 16, 2021 12:56 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

The name sounds like it would be translated as "30 Hands," although without having kanji, it's hard to be certain. I can't think of any karate kata by that name, nor was I able to find any other martial arts forms with a name that in any way references "30 Hands," from any style. From looking at it, I would say that this was someone's new creation using bits and pieces of existing kata, since every piece of that form is found in other kata, almost verbatim. I would also guess that it was invented specifically FOR tournaments, as it starts at the front and then moves backward, which is a fairly common practice when creating competition forms, as you do not have to back away from the judges after announcing yourself in order to start.
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Wado Heretic
Green Belt
Green Belt

Joined: 23 May 2014
Posts: 478
Location: United Kingdom, England, Shropshire
Styles: Wado-Ryu , Kobayashi Shorin-Ryu (Kodokan), RyuKyu Kobojutsu

PostPosted: Fri Sep 17, 2021 7:54 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I have run through my library of "Karate-Like" Families of Forms I thought it could belong to. I went through Kosho Shorei-Ryu, Nick Cerio's Kenpo Karate, the Palgwe of Tae Kwon Do, and the novel kata of Shintani Wadokai and so on and so forth. I could not find anything exactly like it but it bears the most resemblance, in terms of novel techniques, to the Numbered Kata of Karazenpo Goshinjutsu or the Palama Sets of Kajukenbo.

From 07 to the end of the video looks like a Judo foot-work drill for a hip-toss followed by some finishing techniques. Otherwise, I have to agree with the others that it looks like a recent invention for tournament purposes. Admittedly, it looks like a blend of Shotokan's Jutte and Heian Sandan, with some original elements, to my eyes.
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sensei8
KF Sensei
KF Sensei

Joined: 23 Feb 2008
Posts: 15453
Location: Houston, TX
Styles: Shindokan Saitou-ryu [Shuri-te/Okinawa-te based]

PostPosted: Fri Sep 17, 2021 1:44 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Welcome to KF, nclearner; glad that you're with us.

It's not a Kata that I've ever seen, until now! Short and quite to the point, and I mean right to the point, which isn't an insult whatsoever. I'd like to see its Bunkai, which can or can't mean anything, especially of its origin.

Thank you, nclearner, for sharing it with us.


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Nidan Melbourne
KF Sempai
KF Sempai

Joined: 21 Aug 2013
Posts: 2277
Location: Melbourne, Australia
Styles: Goju-Ryu, BJJ, Balintawak Arnis

PostPosted: Wed Sep 22, 2021 3:39 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Welcome to the forum!

I'd say that it is a kata that your former instructor created or one that their instructors did.
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tatsujin
Yellow Belt
Yellow Belt

Joined: 12 Oct 2021
Posts: 31

Styles: Ryusei-ha Ryukyu Kempo Karate-jutsu

PostPosted: Tue Oct 12, 2021 5:07 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I have got a pretty strong background in Shotokan from back in the day and I don't recognize the name or the kata from the video clip.
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