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infinitehand
Yellow Belt
Yellow Belt

Joined: 14 May 2013
Posts: 25
Location: Macon, GA
Styles: Okinawa Goju-Ryu

PostPosted: Mon Dec 16, 2013 5:25 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Kata are pragmatic fighting systems in and of themselves. Knowing 30 kata doesn't make a bit of difference to the Karateka who UNDERSTANDS and can Read one.

Kata contain: locks, pins, throws, chokes, strikes, grappling and Kyusho.

No technique is for show, chamber, prepare or "load". Each individual technique is there for a specific reason.
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bushido_man96
KF Sensei
KF Sensei

Joined: 31 Mar 2006
Posts: 28545
Location: Hays, KS
Styles: Taekwondo, Combat Hapkido, Aikido, GRACIE

PostPosted: Mon Dec 16, 2013 1:37 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

infinitehand wrote:
Kata are pragmatic fighting systems in and of themselves. Knowing 30 kata doesn't make a bit of difference to the Karateka who UNDERSTANDS and can Read one.

Kata contain: locks, pins, throws, chokes, strikes, grappling and Kyusho.

No technique is for show, chamber, prepare or "load". Each individual technique is there for a specific reason.
This gets state a lot, and a lot of times, its all that gets stated. No elaboration, no clarification, just statement.

I like to see more about where all these applications are in these katas. I have read some good books that elaborate a bit more on this, and they are immensly helpful.
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infinitehand
Yellow Belt
Yellow Belt

Joined: 14 May 2013
Posts: 25
Location: Macon, GA
Styles: Okinawa Goju-Ryu

PostPosted: Mon Dec 16, 2013 4:37 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

A forum isn't exactly the best environment for "elaboration" but a good teacher is. Any questions let me know.

Im also in the process of getting some videos up on YouTube. Perhaps that'll be more helpful.
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Luther unleashed
Brown Belt
Brown Belt

Joined: 30 Jan 2014
Posts: 661
Location: Phoenix
Styles: A few!

PostPosted: Wed Sep 23, 2015 12:50 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

This looks like n old discussion but I find it interesting. When I trained in Taekwondo I cared very little for forms personally. Not dissing taekwondo but as a practitioner I didn't care for them. I enjoy forms from tang Soo do however, or the version of them that I learned which is much less rigid and much more fluid. I also enjoy my hung gar forms, like tiger crane. I still practice and teach a small amount of taekwondo forms, and hung gar although the forms I teach in my system are primarily tang Soo do.

Forms in my opinion are a great way to grade students. They are also a great way to break down moves step by step, and often at a slower pace then a fighting situation, or compared to doing a set of attacking combinations with them. That are good for balance, and with some kids In particular they are great for a sense of direction. Forms are a great way to practice on your own as well, sometimes I enjoy private training and forms are a great way to do this, oh not to mention they are a great artistic expression IMHO of the art you study. Forms are great for strengthening and learning to breath properly. Man I could go on and on about why I think they are great, I say this as a student and teacher. I find many useful movements in forms for self defense but they are not literal in most cases, many great techniques can be derived from them though.
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LLLEARNER
Brown Belt
Brown Belt

Joined: 10 Feb 2016
Posts: 687
Location: Central Maine

PostPosted: Sun Jun 19, 2016 5:17 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I am still a new practitioner. I am planning to test for my yellow belt next month. I am however, older than most practitioners for my rank. I think this also gives me a bit of a different perspective. A year and a half ago I hurt my back to the point of hardly being able to walk. Even now my balance is somewhat compromised as is some dexterity in my feet. I find that the kata are helping me with my balance and some dexterity. While the numbness is not abating I am adapting to what I have to work with. I still can't run up and down stairs like I used to but I am getting more confident. I find that kata also helps my movement flow more and while I will probably never be classified as graceful, I feel my movements getting smoother and more polished.
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Nidan Melbourne
KF Sempai
KF Sempai

Joined: 21 Aug 2013
Posts: 2250
Location: Melbourne, Australia
Styles: Goju-Ryu, BJJ, Balintawak Arnis

PostPosted: Sun Jun 19, 2016 9:51 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

infinitehand wrote:
A forum isn't exactly the best environment for "elaboration" but a good teacher is. Any questions let me know.

Im also in the process of getting some videos up on YouTube. Perhaps that'll be more helpful.


I feel like if you can elaborate in words it can often strengthen your understanding and ability to view things differently in breaking the kata down to its most basic techniques.

I have found that by having to elaborate my interpretations or thoughts to those on this forum that has actually improved my understanding of kata. Like Bushido_man96 said even books can elaborate quite nicely for techniques.

I like seeing videos in relation to breaking Kata down into bunkai because I am a visual learner, but to get me thinking (truly thinking about what to do), I will read someone elses interpretation.
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sensei8
KF Sensei
KF Sensei

Joined: 23 Feb 2008
Posts: 15151
Location: Houston, TX
Styles: Shindokan Saitou-ryu [Shuri-te/Okinawa-te based]

PostPosted: Mon Jun 20, 2016 12:53 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Nidan Melbourne wrote:
infinitehand wrote:
A forum isn't exactly the best environment for "elaboration" but a good teacher is. Any questions let me know.

Im also in the process of getting some videos up on YouTube. Perhaps that'll be more helpful.


I feel like if you can elaborate in words it can often strengthen your understanding and ability to view things differently in breaking the kata down to its most basic techniques.

I have found that by having to elaborate my interpretations or thoughts to those on this forum that has actually improved my understanding of kata. Like Bushido_man96 said even books can elaborate quite nicely for techniques.

I like seeing videos in relation to breaking Kata down into bunkai because I am a visual learner, but to get me thinking (truly thinking about what to do), I will read someone elses interpretation.

Solid post!!

It's not what you say, but it's how you say it!!



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MatsuShinshii
Black Belt
Black Belt

Joined: 15 Aug 2016
Posts: 1423
Location: Kentucky
Styles: Machimura Suidi Rokudan, Ryukyu Kenpo, Kobudo, Judo

PostPosted: Wed Dec 21, 2016 6:53 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Nidan Melbourne wrote:

I feel like if you can elaborate in words it can often strengthen your understanding and ability to view things differently in breaking the kata down to its most basic techniques.

I have found that by having to elaborate my interpretations or thoughts to those on this forum that has actually improved my understanding of kata. Like Bushido_man96 said even books can elaborate quite nicely for techniques.

I like seeing videos in relation to breaking Kata down into bunkai because I am a visual learner, but to get me thinking (truly thinking about what to do), I will read someone elses interpretation.


I totally agree with your analogy. This is similar to my experience with teaching. I feel that I gained a broader understanding of the Kata and to be honest the art itself when I started teaching.

Needing to explain the techniques to students more or less turned on the light bulb. Things that I only had a mild understanding suddenly became clearer. Being forced to really think about something so you can put it into terms that a novice can understand actually taught me what I only though I understood before.

I can understand where you are coming from in terms of needing to write something so that everyone can understand what you are trying to explain.

Great example.
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