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DaveB
Orange Belt
Joined: 13 Jul 2014
Posts: 142
Location: London
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 Posted: Thu Apr 14, 2016 12:44 am Post subject: |
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| Alan Armstrong wrote: |
| Can you do a kata in a forest? Can you do a kata on a rocky sloped mountain side? Can you do a kata in complete darkness? Can you do a kata in a crowded room? |
Yes, to all of those. Kata in a dojo is a new thing.
The best metaphor for kata is the phrase, "from little acorns mighty oak trees grow."
Kata is the acorn, fighting with the Kata is the oak tree's foliage in full bloom.
This occurs through the "unpacking " of the kata: breaking it down into ideas and mechanics, exploring how these can take different forms and be combined in different ways then ultimately inculcating them to be used as needed in combat.
The division of training into the three k's is imo a false one. It is all kata, whether training techniques or drills or fighting. |
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sensei8
KF Sensei
Joined: 23 Feb 2008
Posts: 16427
Location: Las Vegas, NV
Styles: Shindokan Saitou-ryu [Shuri-te/Okinawa-te based]
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| Posted: Thu Apr 14, 2016 2:20 pm Post subject: |
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| DaveB wrote: |
| Alan Armstrong wrote: |
| Can you do a kata in a forest? Can you do a kata on a rocky sloped mountain side? Can you do a kata in complete darkness? Can you do a kata in a crowded room? |
Yes, to all of those. Kata in a dojo is a new thing.
The best metaphor for kata is the phrase, "from little acorns mighty oak trees grow."
Kata is the acorn, fighting with the Kata is the oak tree's foliage in full bloom.
This occurs through the "unpacking " of the kata: breaking it down into ideas and mechanics, exploring how these can take different forms and be combined in different ways then ultimately inculcating them to be used as needed in combat.
The division of training into the three k's is imo a false one. It is all kata, whether training techniques or drills or fighting. |
Solid post!!
_________________
**Proof is on the floor!!! |
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sensei8
KF Sensei
Joined: 23 Feb 2008
Posts: 16427
Location: Las Vegas, NV
Styles: Shindokan Saitou-ryu [Shuri-te/Okinawa-te based]
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| Posted: Thu Apr 14, 2016 2:25 pm Post subject: |
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| Alan Armstrong wrote: |
| Can you do a kata in a forest? Can you do a kata on a rocky sloped mountain side? Can you do a kata in complete darkness? Can you do a kata in a crowded room? |
Yes....if need be!!
But, why, do you ask?!?
No matter what anyone says negative about Kata, it is here to stay; now and forever. Why? It's a important tool; one without any equal. I've been doing Kata for over 50 years, and I'm not subjected to being a slave of it, nor am I subjected to being in bondage. As a tool, I use it properly; how it's designed to be.
Kata is only limited by the practitioner!!
_________________
**Proof is on the floor!!! |
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Alan Armstrong
Black Belt
Joined: 28 Feb 2016
Posts: 2468
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| Posted: Thu Apr 14, 2016 7:13 pm Post subject: |
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| A kata that is not one's own is like reading a poem that someone else has written. To do the kata moves that someone else has put together is like reading that poem out loud. Practicing that kata enough times one can think and feel that they are the composer but they are not. Like interpreting classical music. Practicing katas that others have made are only practicing interpretations of someone else's work. Playing Motzart's music on a piano doesn't make that person a genius. Because the genius belongs to the composer and not to the copier or interpreter. Talent can always copy genius and genius will always belong to the originator. Originality is always a surprise and copiers are always surprised by it. Art is originality. Martial artists use originality and spontaneity to win battles. As every battle can never be completely duplicated the creative warrior was born. Out of martial art ways for developing and keeping the necessary skills for self preservation and survival skills to be past on, the paradoxical katas were invented. There is no longer a place for originality and spontaneity with katas in place because regimental conformity promises predictable, favorable, present and future results. Original problem solving is no longer required because katas have replaced it with predictably. There will always be Karaoke katas for future generations to learn; pass it on! |
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sensei8
KF Sensei
Joined: 23 Feb 2008
Posts: 16427
Location: Las Vegas, NV
Styles: Shindokan Saitou-ryu [Shuri-te/Okinawa-te based]
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| Posted: Sat Apr 16, 2016 12:08 pm Post subject: |
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| Alan Armstrong wrote: |
| A kata that is not one's own is like reading a poem that someone else has written. To do the kata moves that someone else has put together is like reading that poem out loud. Practicing that kata enough times one can think and feel that they are the composer but they are not. Like interpreting classical music. Practicing katas that others have made are only practicing interpretations of someone else's work. Playing Motzart's music on a piano doesn't make that person a genius. Because the genius belongs to the composer and not to the copier or interpreter. Talent can always copy genius and genius will always belong to the originator. Originality is always a surprise and copiers are always surprised by it. Art is originality. Martial artists use originality and spontaneity to win battles. As every battle can never be completely duplicated the creative warrior was born. Out of martial art ways for developing and keeping the necessary skills for self preservation and survival skills to be past on, the paradoxical katas were invented. There is no longer a place for originality and spontaneity with katas in place because regimental conformity promises predictable, favorable, present and future results. Original problem solving is no longer required because katas have replaced it with predictably. There will always be Karaoke katas for future generations to learn; pass it on! |
So...I guess that you don't favor Kata!? If so, well, that's cool, and it's your right...I respect that!
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**Proof is on the floor!!! |
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DaveB
Orange Belt
Joined: 13 Jul 2014
Posts: 142
Location: London
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| Posted: Sat Apr 16, 2016 1:52 pm Post subject: |
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| Alan Armstrong wrote: |
| A kata that is not one's own is like reading a poem that someone else has written. To do the kata moves that someone else has put together is like reading that poem out loud. Practicing that kata enough times one can think and feel that they are the composer but they are not. Like interpreting classical music. Practicing katas that others have made are only practicing interpretations of someone else's work. Playing Motzart's music on a piano doesn't make that person a genius. Because the genius belongs to the composer and not to the copier or interpreter. Talent can always copy genius and genius will always belong to the originator. Originality is always a surprise and copiers are always surprised by it. Art is originality. Martial artists use originality and spontaneity to win battles. As every battle can never be completely duplicated the creative warrior was born. Out of martial art ways for developing and keeping the necessary skills for self preservation and survival skills to be past on, the paradoxical katas were invented. There is no longer a place for originality and spontaneity with katas in place because regimental conformity promises predictable, favorable, present and future results. Original problem solving is no longer required because katas have replaced it with predictably. There will always be Karaoke katas for future generations to learn; pass it on! |
It's a lovely idea, very well written, but it's just not how any of this work. |
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Alan Armstrong
Black Belt
Joined: 28 Feb 2016
Posts: 2468
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| Posted: Sat Apr 16, 2016 4:58 pm Post subject: |
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| Katas are fine and free flowing ma movements are fine also. In time after doing ma for a very long time, the martial artist's nervous system and muscles are programmed to perform normally in a natural ma way, rigidity and tension should be replaced with spontaneity and gestural ma movements. Just the other day, giving a private lesson to a bjj on how mma combining aikido/wing-chun/tai-chi can free flow together, naturally. Practicing a style or one style in a kata has confined oneself to it, but buy being free flowing with a few styles or many ma styles, movements don't need to be so pronounced as Katate or Tai-Chi. Movements can be very subtle and can cause just as much damage to an opponent or even give more options for defence and offensive purposes. As martial artists do we really need to be so dynamic or animated or obvious. The old masters of ma became very subtle in their techniques, so much so that they don't look real or realistically true. My bjj practitioner student learned from me that it is going to take him alot of time and practice to be subtle and natural in his movements. Now he knows it is possible with this new knowledge, that is now for him realistically attainable! The Yin/Yang symbol sums it up best. Softness is contained in hardness with the white dot in the black background and visa versa. The proper symbol is drawn with a calligraphy brush swishing without closing or making any gaps. Most Yin/Yang symbols are made in a graphic solid way which is a contradiction to it's true meaning. A kata can be rigidly graphic or can be allowed to be free flowingly artistic; entirely your decision. The reason concrete cracks and crumbles over time is because it gets harder over time. This is why as martial artists we go with the nature of water and the softest flowing things of natire and not the way of man made concrete. |
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