Full-Contact Kumite Preference Poll

Baka718 · White Belt

Hello folks. I am pretty much a Karate novice having only a brief stint at World Oyama Karate. So my sparring has been limited to Knockdown Kumite though I also trained at an MMA gym for a while, and have done Judo randori.

I am wondering how many of you folks spar with aliveness, full-contact, and continuously (as compared to Sundome or lighter-contact Point Sparring style)? If so, what is your preferred style of sparring both in the dojo and fighting in the arena? And why? Do you think your preferred sparring style is practical for "real world situations"?

Capella · Yellow Belt

Okay, very personal opinion here, of course.

I am a 49 year old woman training Kyokushin karate. I don't fight in competitions, I am highly unlikely to get into any kind of "streetfight" (my last real world fight happened in 8th grade if I remember correctly ... I lost) and my aim is more to sparr in a safe (and fun) way than to prepare myself for a life and death encounter with Hercules.

So from that point of view, I am quite happy that Kyokushin does not allow punches to the head. I kind of like my face and I have grown quite fond of my braincells. I find the thought that noone is going to bash my head in during sparring quite comforting. Okay, there is the risk of a kick to the head, of course, but they are way harder to pull off and therefore happen less frequently. Also, we usually sparr with a lot of control when it comes to kicks to the head. It would be very difficult to have the same kind of control for punches and still keep the sparring fluent and natural.

Also bareknuckle attacks to the head are not feasible for most of us who have to go to work in a normal job the next morning. I find it difficult enough to explain the bruises on my arms and legs and the occasional limp to my employer and my colleagues.

It always has to be a trade-off between gloves/protective gear or a limitation of target/technique. Let's face it. Most combat sports don't allow groin shots for very good reasons. Yet in "real world situations" they remain an option. A similar thing is true for punches to the head. I think it is more realistic to fight without gloves and without punches to the head than to fight with gloves and with punches to the head. Gloves change everything.

If your main focus is self-defense, it probably would be a good idea to alternate between bareknuckle sparring without headshots and sparring with gloves and headprotection, so that you learn to cover and evade punches to the head.

Bulltahr · Brown Belt

Yes, we all have to go to work on Monday morning. Full contact, MMA style is a different beast as far as I'm concerned, if you are young and want to get recognition or $ or whatever, amateur or pro then OK fair enough, but for the rest of us, well we should have enough skills to defend ourselves against Joe average ratbag drunk outside the pub.
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Fat Cobra · Green Belt

Do you even Bogu, Bro?!?!?!?!?
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Yondan in Ryukyu Kempo
Head of the Shubu Kan Dojo in Carthage, NY
(United Ryukyu Kempo Alliance)

Wastelander · KF Sensei

Personally, I have found that people who have an interest in developing a well-rounded skill set should be engaging in a variety of sparring methods. As with ALL training methods, there are different pros and cons to each, and all of them compromise something, so by using different methods, you can get overlap that makes up for what would otherwise be gaps caused by those compromises.

That said, I certainly have methods I like better than others. My favorite is probably kakedameshi, which is close range sparring where you maintain contact with your opponent's limbs at all time, and focuses on tactile sensitivity, muchimidi, and limb control. It's an excellent sparring method for working your kata applications against resistance, and because of the close range, you can adjust the contact level of the strikes as necessary. My second favorite is MMA-style sparring, with more open rules to allow for some more "dirty" methods--still done with enough control to be safe, of course.
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Kishimoto-Di | 2014-Present | Sensei: Ulf Karlsson
Shorin-Ryu/Shinkoten Karate | 2010-Present: Yondan, Renshi | Sensei: Richard Poage (RIP), Jeff Allred (RIP)
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Wado Heretic · Green Belt

My sentiment with contact training is that it must be sport-specific or context-specific. For example, there is little reason in doing bare-knuckle if your goal is Kick-Boxing, where gloves are a universal staple, in the same sense doing MMA style sparring, is not efficient if you are participating in stand-up exclusive rules.

As a Kata and Self-defence focused teacher I thus favour a type of sparring already brought up by Mr Legel (Wastelander) which is Kakedameshi. Admittedly, I introduced it to my teaching via my experience in Tai Chi Quen and tuishou (Pushing Hands), American Kempo's lock-flow drills, and a brief experience of Goju-Ryu Kake-Kumite. Then I ventured to Okinawa and discovered the real deal, and never looked back. Thus, it is the sort I prefer, and it is the one I was using on a session to session basis, and plan to get back to when rules allow.

With that said, for Jiyu-Kumite or Free-Sparring, I do prefer Bogu Kumite. We would put the Bogu on every couple of months, and free-spar in a free-fighting format. Full-contact to the body, but controlled contact to the legs and head. If it went to the ground, simulated ground and pound only, and "catch" rules on submissions: meaning if a hold was secured it was an automatic end to the sparring, no tapping or finishing holds, just for safety reasons. When striking is involved the adrenalin is running and accidents are more likely to happen. We also use Bogu for self-defend orientated Kumite such as wall sparring.

For ground-fighting I tend to prefer what is called isolation sparring or positional rolling in Brazillian Jujutsu circles. Have students work on position or specific techniques relevant to self-defence.

For grading, however, I do use the bare-knuckle knock-down format as well as Kudo style rules. I have a student fight a full-time Kudo Match against a student of similar weight and experience as a test of skill. They then face a line up of students in under knock-down rules more as a test of spirit than anything else.

Point being, variety is a good thing, and whatever you do use needs to be relevant to your end goals.
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R. Keith Williams

sensei8 · KF Sensei

I've no specificality towards any one particular fighting style whatsoever. Inspite of being raised in the bare-knuckle knock-down excitements that was Shindokan, I'm quite ecelectic whenever it comes to fighting/sparring/Kumite/etc; the more raw and in-your-face the much more I'm drawn into it.

I've no desire to pick a one or two or plethora fighting type because that limits me across the board. I'm comfortable on the floor no matter what stands before me.

I'm quite fortunate to have been taught by two exceptional Okinawan Sensei's, Soke Saitou and Dai-Soke Takahashi because they liked fighting hard and raw with one another with no-holds barred; the rougher and rawer, the better for them. To watch them go at each other, you'd swear that they hated each other and were trying to kill one another. They held back nothing and apologized for nothing. Nothing was prohibited...nothing!!

That being said, that's exactly how Greg Forsythe and I went at each other on the floor, nothing was prohibited, and whenever Soke and/or Dai-Soke would observe Greg and me fighting one another, they would just shine an agreeing smile at is both; they recognized themselves by observing us trying to tear each other apart. I could only do that type of fighting with Greg because the other Senior Ranks wanted nothing to do with that for some unknown reason(s), even though I've my own as to why.

Greg and I did some I'm-gonna-kill-you type of fighting sessions over many years with Dai-Soke, and our eyes were opened wide as to things of effectiveness, that one can't receive by just engaging in Jiyu Kumite because Jiyu Kumite is limited compared to what Soke and Dai-Soke engaged in with each other, and the same can be fairly said the same for what Greg and I engaged in.

Were we out of control?? With that type of sparring?? No!! Why?? The streets are unlimited and unforgiving being that if you're timid, you're already going to be eaten alive unmercifully. As cruel and barbaric as it might seem, oftentimes, kill or be killed is the way of the jungle. So, how I was taught and brought up on the floor with Soke and Dai-Soke was very beneficial for me in my MA journey.

Nonetheless, as a CI, I'm gentle, yet aggressive towards my Student Body, yet as raw as I believe a student can take, therefore, their learning curve is challenged, and that too is beneficial for them.

As far as the poll here, perhaps I selected the very last choice, and explained that in this post of mine. I looked over the list, and I couldn't select any particular one choice because as I've explained here, therefore, all of the above might better describe my preference within this topic.

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**Proof is on the floor!!!

cheesefrysamurai · Purple Belt

We generally do knockdown Kyokushin style kumite.

My instructor also trains and teaches Kyokushin.

Our Goju ryu also uses a very similar type of Kumite.

Our irikumi go is different. We wear head gear, shin pads, cup, gloves... anything goes l
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