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Dobbersky
Black Belt
Black Belt

Joined: 19 Jul 2006
Posts: 1323
Location: Manchester. United Kingdom
Styles: Black Tiger Ashihara Karate Jutsu, Japanese Kickboxing, Cheng Man Ch'ing TaiChi

PostPosted: Tue Jan 29, 2013 5:52 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

chrissyp wrote:
What do you mean by full-contact? Do you mean full force, or full target range, like leg kicks, face punches, ect?

As mentioned, do BOTH. You need full contact (not 100% full force though) to physicaly train both you mind and body for combat...prepare it for whats to come...

as for non-full contact, use that time to work on perfect technique, have fun, play around with new things without worrying about getting smashed, aka time drills, handicap sparring.

Point sparring, is great for beginners, cause it teaches control, while not realistic though, it does build confidence up. I find the biggest thing is a lot of people are scared to spar, even light contact.


ChrissyP (appologies if I mis-read your post), Full Contact is normally practiced by Muay Thai, Shoot Boxing, MMA, Kyokushin, Ashihara, Enshin, Daiko Juku, SeidoKan and other Okinawan based systems. Full Contact can be deemed as what you see in Cage fighting etc. (Not too sure it WTF is Full Contact). So Full Contact is what is used in Gradings or special sparring events or Competitions.

Training however is not done at full contact, many tend to use Semi-Contact upto 80% impact power. Perfect Technique can still be used in Full contact training.
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The Greatest Disciple
Yellow Belt
Yellow Belt

Joined: 29 Jan 2013
Posts: 37
Location: Joplin, MO
Styles: Wright's Kempo-Goju, Kobayashi Shorin-Ryu, Judo

PostPosted: Tue Jan 29, 2013 10:29 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I spar approximately 6-10 minutes a week at about half contact for 2 minute rounds. I spar about 2-3 hours a week in point fighting. The only time I ever spar at "full contact" is when someone is testing for a black belt, and even then I pull my punches a little. If I were to hit a little guy with 100% power, I'd kill him.

I believe if you were to ever go 100% full contact, you are trying to cripple or kill your opponent. Not something for the dojo. To spar means to train. You can't help the other guy improve if you hospitalize him.
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Kuma
Black Belt
Black Belt

Joined: 03 Dec 2008
Posts: 1092


PostPosted: Wed Jan 30, 2013 1:42 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

The Greatest Disciple wrote:
I spar approximately 6-10 minutes a week at about half contact for 2 minute rounds. I spar about 2-3 hours a week in point fighting. The only time I ever spar at "full contact" is when someone is testing for a black belt, and even then I pull my punches a little. If I were to hit a little guy with 100% power, I'd kill him.

I believe if you were to ever go 100% full contact, you are trying to cripple or kill your opponent. Not something for the dojo. To spar means to train. You can't help the other guy improve if you hospitalize him.


I'd have to disagree with that. A regular part of Kyokushin training is jissen kumite which is full contact fighting. Students regularly spar in class, and often with moderate to hard contact. Human beings are much sturdier than you think, and even a well trained strike from a martial artist is not always the killing blow (or even fight finisher) we think it is.

This is the Kyokushin way of sparring.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ujMgPDUGYUs

Note too that we rarely get any kind of serious injuries from this kind of sparring in the dojo too.
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FighterForLife
Yellow Belt
Yellow Belt

Joined: 26 Sep 2013
Posts: 28

Styles: Kyokushin

PostPosted: Fri Oct 04, 2013 7:24 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Kuma wrote:
The Greatest Disciple wrote:
I spar approximately 6-10 minutes a week at about half contact for 2 minute rounds. I spar about 2-3 hours a week in point fighting. The only time I ever spar at "full contact" is when someone is testing for a black belt, and even then I pull my punches a little. If I were to hit a little guy with 100% power, I'd kill him.

I believe if you were to ever go 100% full contact, you are trying to cripple or kill your opponent. Not something for the dojo. To spar means to train. You can't help the other guy improve if you hospitalize him.


I'd have to disagree with that. A regular part of Kyokushin training is jissen kumite which is full contact fighting. Students regularly spar in class, and often with moderate to hard contact. Human beings are much sturdier than you think, and even a well trained strike from a martial artist is not always the killing blow (or even fight finisher) we think it is.

This is the Kyokushin way of sparring.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ujMgPDUGYUs

Note too that we rarely get any kind of serious injuries from this kind of sparring in the dojo too.


Osu!

In our dojo we have a lot of kids (small group - we dont have a separate kid-class) so I get my control training when I spar with them and will only make light contact.

With the shodans and adults, that is where we take the gloves off (literally).
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Hawkmoon
Pre-Black Belt
Pre-Black Belt

Joined: 17 Jun 2013
Posts: 891
Location: MK in the UK
Styles: Kyokushin

PostPosted: Fri Oct 04, 2013 10:08 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

chrissyp wrote:
What do you mean by full-contact? Do you mean full force, or full target range, like leg kicks, face punches, ect?

As mentioned, do BOTH. You need full contact (not 100% full force though) to physicaly train both you mind and body for combat...prepare it for whats to come...

as for non-full contact, use that time to work on perfect technique, have fun, play around with new things without worrying about getting smashed, aka time drills, handicap sparring.

Point sparring, is great for beginners, cause it teaches control, while not realistic though, it does build confidence up. I find the biggest thing is a lot of people are scared to spar, even light contact.


good questions and good points...

Another view/direction to consider I think comes form the term martial Arts, and its meaning!

Sure there is a long 'artist' collection of words that cover this, but the following I feel covers it as well as we need it to here?

"The term is ultimately derived from Latin, and means "arts of Mars," where Mars is the Roman god of war."
"....fighting arts or fighting systems would be more appropriate on the basis that many martial arts were never martial in the sense of being used or created by professional warriors."


One quote I have that really stands out in my mind is:
"Chinese martial arts originated during the Xia Dynasty more than 4000 years ago. It is said the Yellow Emperor Huangdi (legendary date of ascension 2698 BC) introduced the earliest fighting systems to China." (A history thing...)

and so on and so on...

The main drive here, karate, Fung-fu TKD etc ...you're learn to fight (historically a war) so to tap an enemy will ......
Where as to strike your enemy would end that specific battle!

Is one better than the other?
No, not a fair question to ask. MA today is a much different animal to what it was years ago.Today there is sport contest done for technical excellence , speed, fun a sport like football
[ both forms American as well as the real stuff the rest of the world play ...... you know the one where the foot and ball actually make contact more than once!]

We have Full contact, MMA, Semi contests.......

I guess the question should really be about tradition v modern?
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Nevinyrral
Blue Belt
Blue Belt

Joined: 16 Jul 2010
Posts: 295
Location: Poland
Styles: Karate

PostPosted: Tue Feb 25, 2014 9:30 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I'd say good way to get more karatekas into mma would be creating more low level mma competitions, and more seminars to train in diffrent styles .
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jaypo
Purple Belt
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Joined: 26 Apr 2012
Posts: 520

Styles: Shotokan, Shorin Ryu

PostPosted: Tue Feb 25, 2014 4:18 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I can see arguments for both. Full contact may "toughen up" some people. But it can also break others down physically and mentally. It also depends on what the students are trying to get out of their training. I personally train in a system where we spar with light contact. But the majority of the students I train with directly are higher level students with a great deal of control. So we can work on sparring techniques without actually having to knock each others' heads off. I'll knock the snot out of a heavy bag, makiwara, board, or cinder block. But I don't think that me landing a full force punch to my female sparring partner's face helps her out all that much!

As far as needing the contact to be effective if I need to use it on the street, well, I hope to never have to discuss that. However, I'm pretty sure that the skills I've gained thru my training would work just fine!
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Safroot
Pre-Black Belt
Pre-Black Belt

Joined: 22 Dec 2013
Posts: 911
Location: Sydney, Australia
Styles: Kyokushin

PostPosted: Tue Feb 25, 2014 5:20 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

jaypo wrote:
It also depends on what the students are trying to get out of their training.

Totally agree, It relies mainly on why do you train ?
for example, if you are training just for fun and fitness so go for semi- or no- contact sparring but if you are doing it for self defense, I guess you have to go for full contact as any street situation will be a full contact anyway
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sensei8
KF Sensei
KF Sensei

Joined: 23 Feb 2008
Posts: 16104
Location: Las Vegas, NV
Styles: Shindokan Saitou-ryu [Shuri-te/Okinawa-te based]

PostPosted: Tue Feb 25, 2014 6:31 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Safroot wrote:
jaypo wrote:
It also depends on what the students are trying to get out of their training.

Totally agree, It relies mainly on why do you train ?
for example, if you are training just for fun and fitness so go for semi- or no- contact sparring but if you are doing it for self defense, I guess you have to go for full contact as any street situation will be a full contact anyway

Solid post!!



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hammer
Green Belt
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Joined: 28 Sep 2004
Posts: 370

Styles: Kyokushin, TKD

PostPosted: Thu Mar 27, 2014 10:32 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I'm moving from non-contact TKD point sparring to Kyokushin...and after just a few basic classes I am already seeing the utility of doing contact sparring. As others have said, there is a place for both.

Just hoping that the contact is at a reasonable level, good enough for conditioning but not to the point of injury.
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