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MisterMcDojo
White Belt
White Belt

Joined: 21 Jan 2013
Posts: 2


PostPosted: Mon Jan 21, 2013 2:32 pm    Post subject: Full contact or Non Full Contact Reply with quote

Hello everyone. I'm just curious in regards to the benefits in training in full contact karate, and the benefits in training in non-full contact karate.

I hear that training full contact, like Kyokushin, helps much more in the overall training experience because the focus on the training is tougher. You are supposed to throw actual strong punches to your opponent, to not only improve your skill as a fighter, but also hard training strengthens your body.

It's not a point system. Where one touch gets you a win. I, personally, don't see the benefits in training in non contact. Because how is that supposed to make you a better fighter? In a real fight, you can't just touch your opponent and win. You are doing yourself a dis-service to training in the martial arts by not practicing in full contact.

Martial arts has really become "martial sports", if you understand what I mean. If you look at how karate has become. The JKA is one of those heavy influences in spreading "martial sports" around, and I don't think it benefits the user in the long run to train like that. Full contact, from my research, is the best way to train. To become a better martial artist.

However, I could be wrong. And as so I dedicated my question over here on the forums. What are the pros and cons between the two training regiments? Is my entire assessment flawed? How so? I'm curious, because I would like to get solid closure on my question. Is there a benefit to training non full contact over full contact?
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ps1
Black Belt
Black Belt

Joined: 09 Nov 2004
Posts: 3025
Location: NE Ohio
Styles: Chuan Fa, Shotokan, JJJ, BJJ

PostPosted: Mon Jan 21, 2013 3:31 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Welcome to the forums.

I don't think you're gonna find alot of people around here who will tell you that full contact is bad. However, there is a direct correlation between the level of contact and the likelihood of injury. The best full contact fighters in the world don't spar full contact all the time. They deconstruct the skills and train them individually. They do full contact maybe once a week...sometimes even less, depending on their training cycle.

So, to answer your question, I would say both. Full contact is certainly necessary, IMO, if you're looking for skill in combat situations. But doing it too often will break down the body for sure.

That said, I see virtually no self defense benefit to point sparring. If you're doing light sparring, it should still be with combinations.
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Dobbersky
Black Belt
Black Belt

Joined: 19 Jul 2006
Posts: 1323
Location: Manchester. United Kingdom
Styles: Black Tiger Ashihara Karate Jutsu, Japanese Kickboxing, Cheng Man Ch'ing TaiChi

PostPosted: Mon Jan 21, 2013 5:05 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

A Blackbelt SHOULD be able to fight in any arena.

Non-contact is like sending a soldier to the frontline with an M16 after only ever trained with a broomstick
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bushido_man96
KF Sensei
KF Sensei

Joined: 31 Mar 2006
Posts: 29847
Location: Hays, KS
Styles: Taekwondo, Combat Hapkido, Aikido, GRACIE, Police Krav Maga, SPEAR

PostPosted: Tue Jan 22, 2013 8:48 pm    Post subject: Re: Full contact or Non Full Contact Reply with quote

MisterMcDojo wrote:
Martial arts has really become "martial sports", if you understand what I mean. If you look at how karate has become. The JKA is one of those heavy influences in spreading "martial sports" around, and I don't think it benefits the user in the long run to train like that. Full contact, from my research, is the best way to train. To become a better martial artist.


You seem to be pointing to the JKA as a producer of "Martial Sport." However, so is full contact a "Martial Sport." So is MMA. So is Wrestling. Boxing. Thai Boxing. Taekwondo, both point and Olympic. These are all Martial Sports. Its really about picking your rule set and going with it.

Now, as for the difference between full-contact and lighter-contact. I believe that its important to train full and light. You can't train full all the time; you'll run out of training partners. However, there can be very beneficial light-contact drills that improve full-contact. MMA fighters, Boxers, etc all do different levels of contact training to work different skills. In the end, both ways are important.

Now, there is a whole different argument in regards to sparring in point-style rule sets, and full contact rule sets. I'll leave that for a different thread.
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brickshooter
Green Belt
Green Belt

Joined: 04 Sep 2010
Posts: 443


PostPosted: Wed Jan 23, 2013 12:39 am    Post subject: Re: Full contact or Non Full Contact Reply with quote

No one daily trains in full contact. Full contact is reserved for competition.

Here's how professionals do it: They load up the sparing partner with a ton of protective gear. Then the Champ gets to pound the sparing partner who is only allowed to hit back at 1/4 power. Nevertheless the Champ goes through 3-5 sparing partners per day because getting pounded is exhausting even if loaded with gear. In other words sparing partners are paid to be human punching bags. That is real life full contact training.
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DaveAbramson
White Belt
White Belt

Joined: 21 Dec 2012
Posts: 18


PostPosted: Thu Jan 24, 2013 4:41 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

In my opinion... one would obviously be better (more skilled and certainly tougher) if they only sparred full (100%) contact. But this too would highly increase the chances of getting injured... and what good is an injured fighter?!
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sensei8
KF Sensei
KF Sensei

Joined: 23 Feb 2008
Posts: 16104
Location: Las Vegas, NV
Styles: Shindokan Saitou-ryu [Shuri-te/Okinawa-te based]

PostPosted: Thu Jan 24, 2013 10:31 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

DaveAbramson wrote:
In my opinion... one would obviously be better (more skilled and certainly tougher) if they only sparred full (100%) contact. But this too would highly increase the chances of getting injured... and what good is an injured fighter?!

Solid post!!


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sensei8
KF Sensei
KF Sensei

Joined: 23 Feb 2008
Posts: 16104
Location: Las Vegas, NV
Styles: Shindokan Saitou-ryu [Shuri-te/Okinawa-te based]

PostPosted: Thu Jan 24, 2013 10:45 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

As its been already mentioned, both non-contact and full contact have their unique training advantages that I think can't be ignored nor denied.

I do both, personally as well as professional. Personally, I love the full contact just as I love the air which I breathe, the more, the better. Professionally, my students need the vehicle of non-contact because it drives them to understand the mechanics of sparring.

Don't do full contact if ones only doing it because "it's cool"; one's heart has to be ready and prepared for full contact.



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seikokaistudent
Yellow Belt
Yellow Belt

Joined: 15 Nov 2012
Posts: 29

Styles: Shito Ryu, BJJ, Ryu Kyu Kobudo

PostPosted: Mon Jan 28, 2013 11:42 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Train full contact for sure. Full contact is generally for younger people who have time before their knees get blown out, and who recover/heal quicker. If you are young and have a sensei you really like who does not practice full contact (like me). Find an MMA gym to go to or spar full contact with your friends outside of class.
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chrissyp
Orange Belt
Orange Belt

Joined: 16 Jan 2013
Posts: 175

Styles: Muay Thai/ Shotokan

PostPosted: Tue Jan 29, 2013 4:44 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

What do you mean by full-contact? Do you mean full force, or full target range, like leg kicks, face punches, ect?

As mentioned, do BOTH. You need full contact (not 100% full force though) to physicaly train both you mind and body for combat...prepare it for whats to come...

as for non-full contact, use that time to work on perfect technique, have fun, play around with new things without worrying about getting smashed, aka time drills, handicap sparring.

Point sparring, is great for beginners, cause it teaches control, while not realistic though, it does build confidence up. I find the biggest thing is a lot of people are scared to spar, even light contact.
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