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singularity6
Pre-Black Belt
Joined: 26 Jun 2017
Posts: 958
Location: Michigan
Styles: Jidokwan Taekwondo and Hapkido, Yoshokai Aikido, ZNIR Iaido, Kendo
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 Posted: Tue Jul 18, 2017 8:13 pm Post subject: |
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| Alan Armstrong wrote: |
Back to the original issue of the TKD CI to knock my arm down, then to follow up with a technique.
The CI did not expect my arm to pop back up; I was expected to keep my arm down as if once it goes down it stays down.
Insects move limbs independently from each other, something I learned from my Wing Chun sifu.
There are many avenues to take with this post, one other issue could be that students have prior knowledge from other martial art styles, that can raise contradiction issues, something that will become more evident, with the passing of time. |
The previous experience you had should also tell you the value of demonstration for those who are learning for the first time. Utilizing your previous knowledge on the street is a good thing. Utilizing it while the instructor is trying to demonstrate a technique can be disrespectful and counterproductive to the class as a whole.
I try to arrive to class with an empty cup, and let the instructors fill it.
_________________
5th Geup Jidokwan Tae Kwon Do/Hap Ki Do
(Never officially tested in aikido, iaido or kendo) |
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Alan Armstrong
Black Belt
Joined: 28 Feb 2016
Posts: 2468
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| Posted: Wed Jul 19, 2017 8:55 am Post subject: |
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| singularity6 wrote: |
| Alan Armstrong wrote: |
Back to the original issue of the TKD CI to knock my arm down, then to follow up with a technique.
The CI did not expect my arm to pop back up; I was expected to keep my arm down as if once it goes down it stays down.
Insects move limbs independently from each other, something I learned from my Wing Chun sifu.
There are many avenues to take with this post, one other issue could be that students have prior knowledge from other martial art styles, that can raise contradiction issues, something that will become more evident, with the passing of time. |
The previous experience you had should also tell you the value of demonstration for those who are learning for the first time. Utilizing your previous knowledge on the street is a good thing. Utilizing it while the instructor is trying to demonstrate a technique can be disrespectful and counterproductive to the class as a whole.
I try to arrive to class with an empty cup, and let the instructors fill it. |
Not all techniques work on everyone, perhaps my self and the bald guy in the video, is doing more good, by not cooperating blindly, to techniques that are easily countered that belong on a road that leads nowhere.
Show or demonstrate both sides attacking and defending, styles or CI's that don't teach both, only have 50% of my respect.
Is your cup half full or half empty? |
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JR 137
Black Belt
Joined: 10 May 2015
Posts: 2442
Location: In the dojo
Styles: Seido Juku
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| Posted: Wed Jul 19, 2017 12:25 pm Post subject: |
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| Alan Armstrong wrote: |
Not all techniques work on everyone, perhaps my self and the bald guy in the video, is doing more good, by not cooperating blindly, to techniques that are easily countered that belong on a road that leads nowhere.
Show or demonstrate both sides attacking and defending, styles or CI's that don't teach both, only have 50% of my respect.
Is your cup half full or half empty? |
There's a big difference between resisting during sparring and resisting while the teacher's teaching/demonstrating. A profound difference.
And the teacher shouldn't be using much force while demonstrating. The point of demonstrating isn't to hurt the student nor is it to show the class the teacher's technique doesn't work. That's what sparring is for.
It's like a science class (I'm a science teacher, so I have to go there)...
The demonstration and practicing the taught material without resistance are the lecture portion. Sparring is the lab. You prove and disprove in the lab, not during the lecture. |
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singularity6
Pre-Black Belt
Joined: 26 Jun 2017
Posts: 958
Location: Michigan
Styles: Jidokwan Taekwondo and Hapkido, Yoshokai Aikido, ZNIR Iaido, Kendo
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| Posted: Wed Jul 19, 2017 12:40 pm Post subject: |
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| Alan Armstrong wrote: |
| singularity6 wrote: |
| Alan Armstrong wrote: |
Back to the original issue of the TKD CI to knock my arm down, then to follow up with a technique.
The CI did not expect my arm to pop back up; I was expected to keep my arm down as if once it goes down it stays down.
Insects move limbs independently from each other, something I learned from my Wing Chun sifu.
There are many avenues to take with this post, one other issue could be that students have prior knowledge from other martial art styles, that can raise contradiction issues, something that will become more evident, with the passing of time. |
The previous experience you had should also tell you the value of demonstration for those who are learning for the first time. Utilizing your previous knowledge on the street is a good thing. Utilizing it while the instructor is trying to demonstrate a technique can be disrespectful and counterproductive to the class as a whole.
I try to arrive to class with an empty cup, and let the instructors fill it. |
Not all techniques work on everyone, perhaps my self and the bald guy in the video, is doing more good, by not cooperating blindly, to techniques that are easily countered that belong on a road that leads nowhere.
Show or demonstrate both sides attacking and defending, styles or CI's that don't teach both, only have 50% of my respect.
Is your cup half full or half empty? |
When I go to class, I try to go with an empty cup. Using the stances I learned in aikido, kendo or iaido are simply not helpful when it comes to my taekwondo - structurally and mechanically, they are different. When in taekwondo, I do taekwondo.
Now when ti comes to real life... I'm the realist:
http://imgur.com/gallery/ula3w
_________________
5th Geup Jidokwan Tae Kwon Do/Hap Ki Do
(Never officially tested in aikido, iaido or kendo)
Last edited by singularity6 on Wed Jul 19, 2017 1:09 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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Alan Armstrong
Black Belt
Joined: 28 Feb 2016
Posts: 2468
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| Posted: Wed Jul 19, 2017 12:59 pm Post subject: |
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| JR 137 wrote: |
| Alan Armstrong wrote: |
Not all techniques work on everyone, perhaps my self and the bald guy in the video, is doing more good, by not cooperating blindly, to techniques that are easily countered that belong on a road that leads nowhere.
Show or demonstrate both sides attacking and defending, styles or CI's that don't teach both, only have 50% of my respect.
Is your cup half full or half empty? |
There's a big difference between resisting during sparring and resisting while the teacher's teaching/demonstrating. A profound difference.
And the teacher shouldn't be using much force while demonstrating. The point of demonstrating isn't to hurt the student nor is it to show the class the teacher's technique doesn't work. That's what sparring is for.
It's like a science class (I'm a science teacher, so I have to go there)...
The demonstration and practicing the taught material without resistance are the lecture portion. Sparring is the lab. You prove and disprove in the lab, not during the lecture. |
What if the person has been in many labs and lectures beforehand?
Science is continually being updated, or is it not so when someone is wearing a white lab coat?
The ego problem can be with the teacher just as much as it can be with the student.
As one person will eat what is served to them while others will send it back, due to its low quality in one area or another.
If I had one martial art teacher, then everything is cut and dry, with who is to blame; in my case, having many teachers, with not one incident with most, how is it that the younger the teacher is the more problems arise?
Simply a lack of experience and social skills on the teacher's part.
That should be teaching kids and not adults due to not knowing how to deal with people that have real life experiences "Under their belt" |
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singularity6
Pre-Black Belt
Joined: 26 Jun 2017
Posts: 958
Location: Michigan
Styles: Jidokwan Taekwondo and Hapkido, Yoshokai Aikido, ZNIR Iaido, Kendo
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| Posted: Wed Jul 19, 2017 1:15 pm Post subject: |
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| Alan Armstrong wrote: |
| JR 137 wrote: |
| Alan Armstrong wrote: |
Not all techniques work on everyone, perhaps my self and the bald guy in the video, is doing more good, by not cooperating blindly, to techniques that are easily countered that belong on a road that leads nowhere.
Show or demonstrate both sides attacking and defending, styles or CI's that don't teach both, only have 50% of my respect.
Is your cup half full or half empty? |
There's a big difference between resisting during sparring and resisting while the teacher's teaching/demonstrating. A profound difference.
And the teacher shouldn't be using much force while demonstrating. The point of demonstrating isn't to hurt the student nor is it to show the class the teacher's technique doesn't work. That's what sparring is for.
It's like a science class (I'm a science teacher, so I have to go there)...
The demonstration and practicing the taught material without resistance are the lecture portion. Sparring is the lab. You prove and disprove in the lab, not during the lecture. |
What if the person has been in many labs and lectures beforehand?
Science is continually being updated, or is it not so when someone is wearing a white lab coat?
The ego problem can be with the teacher just as much as it can be with the student.
As one person will eat what is served to them while others will send it back, due to its low quality in one area or another.
If I had one martial art teacher, then everything is cut and dry, with who is to blame; in my case, having many teachers, with not one incident with most, how is it that the younger the teacher is the more problems arise?
Simply a lack of experience and social skills on the teacher's part.
That should be teaching kids and not adults due to not knowing how to deal with people that have real life experiences "Under their belt" |
Ultimately, if you feel that this school isn't working out for you, then leave it. I try to use this analogy whenever I feel things aren't flowing right at work or elsewhere:
"If all I see is headlights, then maybe I'm in the wrong lane."
Sometimes I'm in the correct lane, but that could mean I'm on the wrong road. Find a new road to travel on (if you really feel these instructors are inferior, leave and maybe open your own school?) I've had to switch lanes, and I've had to switch roads many times throughout my life, and sometimes I'd need to swallow my pride when reaching those points.
My experiences in martial arts indicate that instructors will ask you to assist in the demonstration if they're confident that you know what's going to happen. Some acting may be required. I've always felt that it was a privilege and an honor to assist in a demonstration.
_________________
5th Geup Jidokwan Tae Kwon Do/Hap Ki Do
(Never officially tested in aikido, iaido or kendo) |
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Alan Armstrong
Black Belt
Joined: 28 Feb 2016
Posts: 2468
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| Posted: Wed Jul 19, 2017 2:27 pm Post subject: |
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| singularity6 wrote: |
| Alan Armstrong wrote: |
| JR 137 wrote: |
| Alan Armstrong wrote: |
Not all techniques work on everyone, perhaps my self and the bald guy in the video, is doing more good, by not cooperating blindly, to techniques that are easily countered that belong on a road that leads nowhere.
Show or demonstrate both sides attacking and defending, styles or CI's that don't teach both, only have 50% of my respect.
Is your cup half full or half empty? |
There's a big difference between resisting during sparring and resisting while the teacher's teaching/demonstrating. A profound difference.
And the teacher shouldn't be using much force while demonstrating. The point of demonstrating isn't to hurt the student nor is it to show the class the teacher's technique doesn't work. That's what sparring is for.
It's like a science class (I'm a science teacher, so I have to go there)...
The demonstration and practicing the taught material without resistance are the lecture portion. Sparring is the lab. You prove and disprove in the lab, not during the lecture. |
What if the person has been in many labs and lectures beforehand?
Science is continually being updated, or is it not so when someone is wearing a white lab coat?
The ego problem can be with the teacher just as much as it can be with the student.
As one person will eat what is served to them while others will send it back, due to its low quality in one area or another.
If I had one martial art teacher, then everything is cut and dry, with who is to blame; in my case, having many teachers, with not one incident with most, how is it that the younger the teacher is the more problems arise?
Simply a lack of experience and social skills on the teacher's part.
That should be teaching kids and not adults due to not knowing how to deal with people that have real life experiences "Under their belt" |
Ultimately, if you feel that this school isn't working out for you, then leave it. I try to use this analogy whenever I feel things aren't flowing right at work or elsewhere:
"If all I see is headlights, then maybe I'm in the wrong lane."
Sometimes I'm in the correct lane, but that could mean I'm on the wrong road. Find a new road to travel on (if you really feel these instructors are inferior, leave and maybe open your own school?) I've had to switch lanes, and I've had to switch roads many times throughout my life, and sometimes I'd need to swallow my pride when reaching those points.
My experiences in martial arts indicate that instructors will ask you to assist in the demonstration if they're confident that you know what's going to happen. Some acting may be required. I've always felt that it was a privilege and an honor to assist in a demonstration. |
My TKD days were about 18 years ago; alot of water has passed under the bridge since then.
Lots of level headed advice here, thanks!
Level headed hasn't always been my strong point. |
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singularity6
Pre-Black Belt
Joined: 26 Jun 2017
Posts: 958
Location: Michigan
Styles: Jidokwan Taekwondo and Hapkido, Yoshokai Aikido, ZNIR Iaido, Kendo
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| Posted: Wed Jul 19, 2017 3:15 pm Post subject: |
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| Alan Armstrong wrote: |
| singularity6 wrote: |
| Alan Armstrong wrote: |
| JR 137 wrote: |
| Alan Armstrong wrote: |
Not all techniques work on everyone, perhaps my self and the bald guy in the video, is doing more good, by not cooperating blindly, to techniques that are easily countered that belong on a road that leads nowhere.
Show or demonstrate both sides attacking and defending, styles or CI's that don't teach both, only have 50% of my respect.
Is your cup half full or half empty? |
There's a big difference between resisting during sparring and resisting while the teacher's teaching/demonstrating. A profound difference.
And the teacher shouldn't be using much force while demonstrating. The point of demonstrating isn't to hurt the student nor is it to show the class the teacher's technique doesn't work. That's what sparring is for.
It's like a science class (I'm a science teacher, so I have to go there)...
The demonstration and practicing the taught material without resistance are the lecture portion. Sparring is the lab. You prove and disprove in the lab, not during the lecture. |
What if the person has been in many labs and lectures beforehand?
Science is continually being updated, or is it not so when someone is wearing a white lab coat?
The ego problem can be with the teacher just as much as it can be with the student.
As one person will eat what is served to them while others will send it back, due to its low quality in one area or another.
If I had one martial art teacher, then everything is cut and dry, with who is to blame; in my case, having many teachers, with not one incident with most, how is it that the younger the teacher is the more problems arise?
Simply a lack of experience and social skills on the teacher's part.
That should be teaching kids and not adults due to not knowing how to deal with people that have real life experiences "Under their belt" |
Ultimately, if you feel that this school isn't working out for you, then leave it. I try to use this analogy whenever I feel things aren't flowing right at work or elsewhere:
"If all I see is headlights, then maybe I'm in the wrong lane."
Sometimes I'm in the correct lane, but that could mean I'm on the wrong road. Find a new road to travel on (if you really feel these instructors are inferior, leave and maybe open your own school?) I've had to switch lanes, and I've had to switch roads many times throughout my life, and sometimes I'd need to swallow my pride when reaching those points.
My experiences in martial arts indicate that instructors will ask you to assist in the demonstration if they're confident that you know what's going to happen. Some acting may be required. I've always felt that it was a privilege and an honor to assist in a demonstration. |
My TKD days were about 18 years ago; alot of water has passed under the bridge since then.
Lots of level headed advice here, thanks!
Level headed hasn't always been my strong point. |
Levelheadedness isn't necessarily my strong point when under pressure. It's something I've been thinking about a lot, and working on. Changing ones mindset as an adult is tough!
_________________
5th Geup Jidokwan Tae Kwon Do/Hap Ki Do
(Never officially tested in aikido, iaido or kendo) |
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sensei8
KF Sensei
Joined: 23 Feb 2008
Posts: 16430
Location: Las Vegas, NV
Styles: Shindokan Saitou-ryu [Shuri-te/Okinawa-te based]
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| Posted: Wed Jul 19, 2017 8:03 pm Post subject: |
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| Alan Armstrong wrote: |
| JR 137 wrote: |
| Alan Armstrong wrote: |
Not all techniques work on everyone, perhaps my self and the bald guy in the video, is doing more good, by not cooperating blindly, to techniques that are easily countered that belong on a road that leads nowhere.
Show or demonstrate both sides attacking and defending, styles or CI's that don't teach both, only have 50% of my respect.
Is your cup half full or half empty? |
There's a big difference between resisting during sparring and resisting while the teacher's teaching/demonstrating. A profound difference.
And the teacher shouldn't be using much force while demonstrating. The point of demonstrating isn't to hurt the student nor is it to show the class the teacher's technique doesn't work. That's what sparring is for.
It's like a science class (I'm a science teacher, so I have to go there)...
The demonstration and practicing the taught material without resistance are the lecture portion. Sparring is the lab. You prove and disprove in the lab, not during the lecture. |
What if the person has been in many labs and lectures beforehand?
Science is continually being updated, or is it not so when someone is wearing a white lab coat?
The ego problem can be with the teacher just as much as it can be with the student.
As one person will eat what is served to them while others will send it back, due to its low quality in one area or another.
If I had one martial art teacher, then everything is cut and dry, with who is to blame; in my case, having many teachers, with not one incident with most, how is it that the younger the teacher is the more problems arise?
Simply a lack of experience and social skills on the teacher's part.
That should be teaching kids and not adults due to not knowing how to deal with people that have real life experiences "Under their belt" |
To the bold type above...
Who's running the class? Student or the instructor? Student came to the instructor to learn, and in that, the instructor didn't look for the student.
Imho, you were incorrect because you're the student who disrespected the instructor, for what? Because you felt like it.
The bearded guy in that video was dead wrong because he's anger issues, for what? Because he's not the skill set required...that's his problem.
_________________
**Proof is on the floor!!! |
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Alan Armstrong
Black Belt
Joined: 28 Feb 2016
Posts: 2468
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| Posted: Thu Jul 20, 2017 12:12 pm Post subject: |
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| sensei8 wrote: |
| Alan Armstrong wrote: |
| JR 137 wrote: |
| Alan Armstrong wrote: |
Not all techniques work on everyone, perhaps my self and the bald guy in the video, is doing more good, by not cooperating blindly, to techniques that are easily countered that belong on a road that leads nowhere.
Show or demonstrate both sides attacking and defending, styles or CI's that don't teach both, only have 50% of my respect.
Is your cup half full or half empty? |
There's a big difference between resisting during sparring and resisting while the teacher's teaching/demonstrating. A profound difference.
And the teacher shouldn't be using much force while demonstrating. The point of demonstrating isn't to hurt the student nor is it to show the class the teacher's technique doesn't work. That's what sparring is for.
It's like a science class (I'm a science teacher, so I have to go there)...
The demonstration and practicing the taught material without resistance are the lecture portion. Sparring is the lab. You prove and disprove in the lab, not during the lecture. |
What if the person has been in many labs and lectures beforehand?
Science is continually being updated, or is it not so when someone is wearing a white lab coat?
The ego problem can be with the teacher just as much as it can be with the student.
As one person will eat what is served to them while others will send it back, due to its low quality in one area or another.
If I had one martial art teacher, then everything is cut and dry, with who is to blame; in my case, having many teachers, with not one incident with most, how is it that the younger the teacher is the more problems arise?
Simply a lack of experience and social skills on the teacher's part.
That should be teaching kids and not adults due to not knowing how to deal with people that have real life experiences "Under their belt" |
To the bold type above...
Who's running the class? Student or the instructor? Student came to the instructor to learn, and in that, the instructor didn't look for the student.
Imho, you were incorrect because you're the student who disrespected the instructor, for what? Because you felt like it.
The bearded guy in that video was dead wrong because he's anger issues, for what? Because he's not the skill set required...that's his problem.
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I disrespected the CI because my reflexes did not Concur with what was being taught.
This could also be similar to old habits are hard to break.
I upset the head CI on other occasions, he got bent out of shape with me for not bowing at him, as I wasn't wearing a Gi I didn't seem it necessary, but he did; even if I see him in the street.
Another upset for the head CI was when he pulled me off of another guy student, while I was pummeling his face, up against a wall.
Reason being every time I sparred with this one particular student, he would (I thought) use excessive force. So I asked him if he would like to spar hard; he accepted, so I obliged and beat him up.
Had another issue with the senior black belt that was 6'4" I'm about 5'7"; he would enjoy side kicking me across the floor, many time I would need to do a double safety role backwards; till I learned how to duck under his kick and end up behind him, then to his surprise, I would touch his nose, also, while going under him in the moment of him in a blind spot, I would touch his knee on his standing leg; the CI was concerned that I might break his leg, with this unorthodox technique.
Wing Chun flanking techniques worked well against TKD black belts, due to their linear approach to sparring. |
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on the post.
