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OneKickWonder
Purple Belt
Purple Belt

Joined: 17 Feb 2018
Posts: 513

Styles: Tang soo do

PostPosted: Mon Jul 23, 2018 4:10 pm    Post subject: Goju ryu characteristics Reply with quote

Hi all.

Some of you may know from my other posts that I'm looking to move on from my current style of tang soo do.

I'm considering a number of options. One is shotokan, which basically is what tang soo do tries to plagiarise so going to shotokan should give me some hint of the truth behind TSD.

Another option is goju ryu.

I initially turned my nose up at goju ryu, on the basis that apparently that's Mr Miyagi's style, and I was annoyed when I found out, something like 30 years after The Karate Kid, that Mr Miyagi actually had no Karate. But shattered illusions aside, people tell me goju ryu is a very credible style.

What can folks tell me about it? What are some of its unique characteristics? What sets it apart from TSD or shotokan?
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G95champ
Black Belt
Black Belt

Joined: 29 Mar 2002
Posts: 3116
Location: Gilbert WV, USA
Styles: Shotokan Karate (FSKA)

PostPosted: Mon Jul 23, 2018 8:53 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

The Karate Kid took the name Miyagi from the founder of Goju
Ryu

Gichin Funkoshi created Shotokan from many years of study in both Goju Ryu and Shoin Ryu.

Goju Ryu is a very hard style. They do a lot of body conditioning type of exercises and techniques from my understanding.

As a Shotokan guy I always tell my students that Funkoshi took the hard from Goju Ryu and th soft from Shoin Ryu. Along with many other things from Master Kano and Judo

I have not done any TSD but I have heard the comparison to Shotokan. With all do respect I have not seen it. (Other than a copy of the kata) Some of the Mcdojo Shotokan guys maybe. I am FSKA by way of JKA Shotokan and we take great pride in our power and explosion vs other styles. That combo comes to us though the yin and yang of Goju and Shoin Ryu IMO
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Wado Heretic
Green Belt
Green Belt

Joined: 23 May 2014
Posts: 389
Location: United Kingdom, England, Shropshire
Styles: Wado-Ryu , Kobayashi Shorin-Ryu (Kodokan), RyuKyu Kobojutsu

PostPosted: Tue Jul 24, 2018 5:51 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

In terms of dynamics there are a lot of similarities between Shotokan, Goju-Ryu, and Tang Soo Do. How the hip is used to generate power is actually quite consistent across the three styles, and all favour a full rotation of the fist.

With the above said; the main differences are primarily the kata, and the scale of power generation. Many of the kata of Tang Soo Do and Shotokan are functionally the same, and thus you will essentially retread old ground. Goju Ryu on the other hand will have a wealth of new kata, and fighting techniques to study.

On to the meaning of the scale of power generation. The primary difference is that Shotokan perform the movements on a larger scale, and make more use of body movements and momentum to generate power. After all, large stances limit hip rotation, and flexibility. In comparison Goju-Ryu uses the hips to generate most of their power with the smaller stances.

There are a multitude of other differences, but those are the big ones.
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JR 137
KF Sempai
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Joined: 10 May 2015
Posts: 2382
Location: In the dojo
Styles: Seido Juku

PostPosted: Tue Jul 24, 2018 6:11 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

G95champ wrote:
The Karate Kid took the name Miyagi from the founder of Goju
Ryu

Gichin Funkoshi created Shotokan from many years of study in both Goju Ryu and Shoin Ryu.

Goju Ryu is a very hard style. They do a lot of body conditioning type of exercises and techniques from my understanding.

As a Shotokan guy I always tell my students that Funkoshi took the hard from Goju Ryu and th soft from Shoin Ryu. Along with many other things from Master Kano and Judo

I have not done any TSD but I have heard the comparison to Shotokan. With all do respect I have not seen it. (Other than a copy of the kata) Some of the Mcdojo Shotokan guys maybe. I am FSKA by way of JKA Shotokan and we take great pride in our power and explosion vs other styles. That combo comes to us though the yin and yang of Goju and Shoin Ryu IMO


Just a point or order, so to speak...
Funakoshi did not study Goju Ryu. Goju Ryu and Shotokan as we know them were being at pretty much the same time. Chōjun Miyagi and Gichen Funakoshi were contemporaries and didnít have any teachers in common that Iím aware of.

Funakoshi developed Shotokan from Shorei Ryu and Shorin Ryu. Miyagi developed Goju Ryu from Naha-Te and furthered it from what he learned in China.
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JR 137
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Joined: 10 May 2015
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Styles: Seido Juku

PostPosted: Tue Jul 24, 2018 6:22 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thereís a wide range of whatís taught in Goju Ryu. Actually, saying thereís a wide range of HOW Goju Ryu is taught and practiced is more accurate, as syllabi are usually pretty consistent.

Just like every other ryuha, thereís great schools and no so great ones. Itís can be taught as an adultsí in-fighting art and as a point fighting and tournament kata art.

The only way to know if itís the right fit for you is to visit the school. Everything we say about it on paper can be correct or completely wrong. It all depends on whoís teaching, how theyíre teaching it, and who theyíre teach it to. A while back, I was all excited to visit a Goju Ryu school that claimed to be authentic Okinawan karate as taught by Chojun Miyagi. I walked in to see point fighting, students making kata look pretty for judges, and kids and adults all training together. And no, it wasnít a change from their normal training routine. Needless to say I didnít sign up. I know of other Goju Ryu dojos who are the polar opposite of that, yet theyíve got the same exact syllabus.

As a side not, Seido by way of Kyokushin is a blend of Shotokan and Goju-Ryu. Iíve always liked the Goju-Ryu kata in our syllabus more than the Shotokan kata. For whatever thatís worth.
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G95champ
Black Belt
Black Belt

Joined: 29 Mar 2002
Posts: 3116
Location: Gilbert WV, USA
Styles: Shotokan Karate (FSKA)

PostPosted: Tue Jul 24, 2018 10:03 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

JR 137 you are correct.

I over simplified the origin in that Shorei Ryu today can be seen in Goju Ryu and U???? Ryu. (I can't recall the name)

I do not know how Goju or the U style have in common with each other much less from there Shorei Ryu base.

Therefore to paraphrase Obi Wan Kenobi what I told you was true from a certin point of view lol.
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Last edited by G95champ on Tue Jul 24, 2018 10:57 am; edited 1 time in total
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G95champ
Black Belt
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Joined: 29 Mar 2002
Posts: 3116
Location: Gilbert WV, USA
Styles: Shotokan Karate (FSKA)

PostPosted: Tue Jul 24, 2018 10:38 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

uechi Ryu

??? Is that what I'm thinking of
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JR 137
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Joined: 10 May 2015
Posts: 2382
Location: In the dojo
Styles: Seido Juku

PostPosted: Tue Jul 24, 2018 10:53 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

G95champ wrote:
uechi Ryu

??? Is that what I'm thinking of


Probably Uechi-Ryū. Uechi-Ryū and Goju-Ryu have I think 3 kata in common - Sanchin, Seisan, and Sanseiru.

I think thereís a common ancestor teacher in their lineages, splitting somewhere around the foundersí teacherís teacher, if that makes sense

Uechi-Ryū is said to be the most ďChineseĒ of the Okinawan styles of karate. I informally worked out at a Uechi Ryu dojo for a semester in college. Very, very interesting system IMO. Quite different from the other mainstream Okinawan schools, yet similar at its core after you get away from the visual aspects. And very tough body conditioning. Itís also been called the toughest school from a body conditioning/hardening sense. If I were to choose any system out there (provided it was taught right), Uechi-Ryū would be very high on my list.
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G95champ
Black Belt
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Joined: 29 Mar 2002
Posts: 3116
Location: Gilbert WV, USA
Styles: Shotokan Karate (FSKA)

PostPosted: Tue Jul 24, 2018 10:58 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I just done a Google search and yes both Goju and Uechi Ryu developed from Shorei Ryu.
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MatsuShinshii
Black Belt
Black Belt

Joined: 15 Aug 2016
Posts: 1423
Location: Kentucky
Styles: Machimura Suidi Rokudan, Ryukyu Kenpo, Kobudo, Judo

PostPosted: Tue Jul 24, 2018 4:25 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

JR 137 wrote:
G95champ wrote:
The Karate Kid took the name Miyagi from the founder of Goju
Ryu

Gichin Funkoshi created Shotokan from many years of study in both Goju Ryu and Shoin Ryu.

Goju Ryu is a very hard style. They do a lot of body conditioning type of exercises and techniques from my understanding.

As a Shotokan guy I always tell my students that Funkoshi took the hard from Goju Ryu and th soft from Shoin Ryu. Along with many other things from Master Kano and Judo

I have not done any TSD but I have heard the comparison to Shotokan. With all do respect I have not seen it. (Other than a copy of the kata) Some of the Mcdojo Shotokan guys maybe. I am FSKA by way of JKA Shotokan and we take great pride in our power and explosion vs other styles. That combo comes to us though the yin and yang of Goju and Shoin Ryu IMO


Just a point or order, so to speak...
Funakoshi did not study Goju Ryu. Goju Ryu and Shotokan as we know them were being at pretty much the same time. Chōjun Miyagi and Gichen Funakoshi were contemporaries and didnít have any teachers in common that Iím aware of.

Funakoshi developed Shotokan from Shorei Ryu and Shorin Ryu. Miyagi developed Goju Ryu from Naha-Te and furthered it from what he learned in China.


I'm definitely not an expert on Shotokan but I seem to remember that I read his teachers were Itosu and Azato. Both were students of Matsumura and thus would fall into the Shorin Ryu classification.

PS - Shorei Ryu is the classification that Goju Ryu is in along with other Nafaadi (Naha-Te) arts.

I have no idea if Funakoshi studied Goju-Ryu but if I had to guess at a class of Ti (Te) outside of Suidi (Shuri-Te) I would guess Tumaadi (Tomari-Te) over Nafaadi (Naha-Te).

I just don't see the connection to Nafaadi.
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