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sensei8
KF Sensei
KF Sensei

Joined: 23 Feb 2008
Posts: 14323
Location: Houston, TX
Styles: Shindokan Saitou-ryu [Shuri-te/Okinawa-te based]

PostPosted: Tue Apr 18, 2017 5:20 pm    Post subject: Government Is The Problem!! Reply with quote

Quote:
"In this present crisis, government is not the solution to our problem; government is the problem. From time to time we've been tempted to believe that society has become too complex to be managed by self-rule, that government by an elite group is superior to government for, by, and of the people. Well, if no one among us is capable of governing himself, then who among us has the capacity to govern someone else? All of us together, in and out of government, must bear the burden. The solutions we seek must be equitable, with no one group singled out to pay a higher price." ~Ronald Reagan

This, I sincerely believe, can be said of any MA Governing Body!!

The government of any MA Governing Body can stand to learn a thing or two from what President Reagan is saying. If the Governing Body determines them to be the sole solution to any situation, then their own agenda is themselves, and not the Student Body.

The Governing Body isn't the solution, but the solution lies within its people, the Student Body. Imho, this shouldn't be taken lightly by any MA Governing Body, and in that, without the people, the Student Body, there is no Governing Body. This should be true at all times.

Your opinions, please!!



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LLLEARNER
Brown Belt
Brown Belt

Joined: 10 Feb 2016
Posts: 687
Location: Central Maine

PostPosted: Wed Apr 19, 2017 12:22 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I agree.
While most people intend to set up a governing body to do good (excepts HOA's, they're evil), the concentration of power always attracts the corrupt and corrupts the innocent. It is ultimately the individual that respects the central idea/concept. I don't murder, not because it is against the law, but because I believe it is wrong.

"If men were angels, no government would be necessary. If angels were to govern men, neither external nor internal controls on government would be necessary." James Madison, The Federalist # 51
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"Those who know don't talk. Those who talk don't know." ~ Lao-tzu, Tao Te Ching

"Walk a single path, becoming neither cocky with victory nor broken with defeat, without forgetting caution when all is quiet or becoming frightened when danger threatens." ~ Jigaro Kano
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MatsuShinshii
Black Belt
Black Belt

Joined: 15 Aug 2016
Posts: 1423
Location: Kentucky
Styles: Machimura Suidi Rokudan, Ryukyu Kenpo, Kobudo, Judo

PostPosted: Wed Apr 19, 2017 5:28 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Agreed wholeheartedly.
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sensei8
KF Sensei
KF Sensei

Joined: 23 Feb 2008
Posts: 14323
Location: Houston, TX
Styles: Shindokan Saitou-ryu [Shuri-te/Okinawa-te based]

PostPosted: Thu Apr 20, 2017 3:40 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

At times, not often, but just at times, our Hombu's Governing Body is a band of dysfunctional misfits. They meant well, but not often!!

Whenever they would scratch their own heads in the wonderment of trying to figure out where it all went wrong. My favorite reply to them when I was the Kaicho was...

"The answer to your question is looking at you every time you look into a mirror. The faster YOU get out of the way, the faster the problem will fade away."

The Student Body deserves that, not just whenever it's convenient to do so, but all of the time. The Governing Body is suppose to be that compass of understanding as well as the compass of reasoning. Not for the Governing Body, but for the Student Body,

If the Student Body can't depend on their Governing Body during any time, whether the time be bad or good, then what good is the Governing Body. The Student Body looks to the Governing Body for guidance, and in that guidance, comes security. That should NEVER be a question, nor should it EVER be second; it should be the answer as well as being first!!



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LLLEARNER
Brown Belt
Brown Belt

Joined: 10 Feb 2016
Posts: 687
Location: Central Maine

PostPosted: Fri Apr 21, 2017 10:47 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Sometimes it is the fact governing bodies can be fumbling misfits that saves the rest of us.
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"Those who know don't talk. Those who talk don't know." ~ Lao-tzu, Tao Te Ching

"Walk a single path, becoming neither cocky with victory nor broken with defeat, without forgetting caution when all is quiet or becoming frightened when danger threatens." ~ Jigaro Kano
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MatsuShinshii
Black Belt
Black Belt

Joined: 15 Aug 2016
Posts: 1423
Location: Kentucky
Styles: Machimura Suidi Rokudan, Ryukyu Kenpo, Kobudo, Judo

PostPosted: Fri Apr 21, 2017 2:28 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

It can go either way. If you leave everything up to the student body things can degrade very quickly. I used to sit on our board and some of the suggestions that we received were crazy to be polite.

On the other hand if too much power is given to the wrong person this can go down hill very fast as well in terms of a governing body. A balance must be maintained for things to work out for all involved.

If you have an elected governing body vs an acting head (Soke), the responsibility of electing good people is solely on the student bodies shoulders when casting their votes. That is if the student body has a say or if it is left up to the instructors of the organization. Either way you get what you vote for.

I go back and forth on the subject. On one hand I really liked it when my Shinshii was the sole decision maker but he was also a good man that cared about his students. On the other hand we now have a board made up of like minded people that also care about the student body and the art itself.

It really comes down to who is in power and whether that power is used to elevate the art and it's students or if it is used for personal gain.

The catch is the student body has a choice. To stay or to leave. Power is a subjective thing and you need subordinates to retain power. No one to rule, no power.

My old organization just went through this. The vast majority of instructors and students decided to leave and form a new organization and our power hungry ex president now has power over 12 instead of 500+. Rumor is he will not be able to retain the 12.

You only give power to those in charge if you choose to put up with their rules/ sometimes craziness. If you don't, power is lost.

If those in power utilize that power to elevate those around them and to improve their art they will retain their position. If it is used to push their own agenda's and to gain control over their student body one of two things will happen; they will eventually be voted out and replaced or their students will find another organization. Either way power is lost.

The truth is if rules were thrown out the door and the student body was to rule itself, it would be absolute anarchy. 10 board members are never fully in agreement on 10% of the issues. I could not imagine if 500+, or in terms of large organizations, 10,000+ were put in charge. What would the end result be of that? An organization that fractures and goes it's separate ways.

Even though most governing bodies are sometimes bone heads and make silly decisions they are a necessary evil because without them you couldn't maintain the integrity of the art and up hold the standards. If students ran the show you would quickly find that one student would want to test after two weeks of training for Shodan and another would think it takes 20 years.

We put governing bodies in place to maintain standards and enforce the rules that maintain integrity in the art. Of course this does not apply to McDojo's that have no integrity passed the all mighty dollar. Traditions and standards are second place to student retention and money flow.
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Trailer_Ape
Yellow Belt
Yellow Belt

Joined: 24 Apr 2017
Posts: 46
Location: Kansas
Styles: Funky and Fresh

PostPosted: Sat Jun 16, 2018 4:22 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I trained at a school, in Tampa, that held Shuri Ryu as its "core art". The head instructor's brother taught JKD, in Miami, so a lot of that bled over into our curriculum. We also had a Muay Thai guy that would come by, every week, and have us work on the things he was working on. Then throw in the fact the place was filled with cops an soldiers who brought a little of the work training with them.

Apparently there is some Shuri Ryu governing body. The instructor once said to me "we are so bastardized, at this point, they refuse to recognize us". It was (back then) an amazing school.

So yea, I think that governing bodies can limit a school's potential by requiring certain curriculum and suppressing nontraditional methods. One could argue that it also protects the student by requiring a certain level of standards but I tend to think that CAPITALISM will take care of that. If a school isn't "up to snuff" you simply find one that is, not expect some "authority" to make it be.
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OneKickWonder
Purple Belt
Purple Belt

Joined: 17 Feb 2018
Posts: 513

Styles: Tang soo do

PostPosted: Sat Jun 16, 2018 4:51 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I see this issue in our association. It seems terrible to me. If it wasn't for the fact that locally, our instructors push the boundaries a bit for our benefit, I'd be out of there.

In ours, training in anything else is unofficially be very undeniably frowned upon. And if someone does come in and show some skill that is outside of our curriculum, it is not studied to see how it could fit, it is completely ignored.

The governing body is like the head of a religion. Our late grandmaster is quoted as saying that he could spend a whole life studying one art. He has no time to study another. This seems to have been taken to mean that nobody else should. When I think he was just expressing his own personal opinion.
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sensei8
KF Sensei
KF Sensei

Joined: 23 Feb 2008
Posts: 14323
Location: Houston, TX
Styles: Shindokan Saitou-ryu [Shuri-te/Okinawa-te based]

PostPosted: Sun Jun 17, 2018 6:21 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

We, of the SKKA, do not interfere with dojo politics whatsoever because we respectfully honor the boundaries that exist between the dojo's and the Governing Body, us; they've their agenda and we've ours.

Understand, at the SKKA's earliest days of a spouting network of dojo's, the SKKA DID interfere with dojo politics heavily. However, that was very short lived once Soke realized just how damaging that was to the whole, and not just to the parts; that made all of the differences.

Sure, the SKKA still does visit ever dojo within the SKKA network, with a visual presence, but that role is purely supportive, and not dictatorial.




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sensei8
KF Sensei
KF Sensei

Joined: 23 Feb 2008
Posts: 14323
Location: Houston, TX
Styles: Shindokan Saitou-ryu [Shuri-te/Okinawa-te based]

PostPosted: Fri Jul 20, 2018 12:29 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

We, at the SKKA, under Soke and Dai-Soke was a measured lesson of how a Governing Body needs to get out of it's own way, and they did get out of the way, and out of that dojo's way within the SKKA's network.

Under my leadership, the SKKA has ramped up it's own accountability towards the Student Body to ensure that we TEACH, and that we never put the SKKA/Hombu above anyone who's part of the SKKA.

Student Body first, SKKA LAST!!

Showing that sincere appreciation that's tangible as well as paramount to the Student Body has been a vital ingredient for the Student Body to exceed all expectations.

If the horse doesn't want any dumb water, after I've led it to the waters edge, then the horse won't drink any dumb water until its thirsty!!

The SKKA can meddle all it wants in dojo internal politics if it wanted to once again, however, if the Student Body wanted the SKKA's dumb forced opinion, they'd ask for our dumb forced opinion. Seeing that they've not asked for our dumb forced opinion, then the SKKA will not force our dumb opinions upon them. If we meddle, then we might as well pay their bills too. But seeing that we don't own any networked dojos within the SKKA, whatsoever, then the SKKA are obedient from a respected distance.

The SKKA has an open door policy, and whenever any dojo want's our advice, they'll ask because we're that support function for them whenever they value our advice. Nonetheless, they must want to ask for our dumb opinions in the first place; we're masters of keeping our opinions to ourselves as well as keeping our mouths closed...no matter how bad we might want to express our opinions.

I don't like the taste of my own foot in my mouth!!




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Last edited by sensei8 on Sat Jul 21, 2018 7:18 am; edited 2 times in total
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