Add KarateForums.com
Vote For Your Favorites in the KarateForums.com Awards 2017!
Username:    Password:
Remember Me?    
   I Lost My Password!
Post new topic   Reply to topic    KarateForums.com Forum Index -> Instructor Central
 See a User Guidelines violation? Press on the post.
Author Message

Nidan Melbourne
KF Sempai
KF Sempai

Joined: 21 Aug 2013
Posts: 2106
Location: Melbourne, Australia
Styles: Goju-Ryu, BJJ, Balintawak Arnis

PostPosted: Thu Jul 27, 2017 11:21 pm    Post subject: Grading Pass/Fail Protocol Reply with quote

As the header says what is your clubs protocol for Passing and Failing Students at Gradings?

Our Clubs protocol for Passing Students are:

Results [Pass]:
Students find out the following class, so they receive their new belt & promotional certificate.

In-Grade Restrictions:
During the Grading, instructors determine if students have any weak areas in relation to our In-Grade Tests.

We indicate the weak areas as a +6, which means that we will give students additional time to develop that area prior to being tested.

As we normally test students every 6 lessons, so they will be tested after 12 instead.


Additionally our protocol for Failing StudentsInvolve:

Pass/Fail Limit:
At each of our gradings, we fail students after they receive more than Three (3) +6 Lessons.

Sometimes we will allow students to be promoted with 3 +6 Lessons, but is purely dependent on how their attitude and levels of effort on the day.

Notification of Negative Result:
Our Chief Instructor notifies the Parent or the Student (if over 1, of a negative result prior to the following class that they may attend.

Explanation of Result:
Not only does our Chief Instructor explain to the student why we failed them (or their child), we will sit down with the student (and parent if present) to explain in detail why and also what they need to do to be successful the following time.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message

singularity6
Green Belt
Green Belt

Joined: 26 Jun 2017
Posts: 447
Location: Michigan
Styles: Jidokwan Taekwondo and Hapkido, Yoshokai Aikido, ZNIR Iaido, Kendo

PostPosted: Fri Jul 28, 2017 7:02 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Our school is a little different.

For 10th - 5th geup, there's 100 points possible, and I think you need roughly 70 points to pass. It's broken down in category /points possible form:

Attendance /5
Overall Performance /10
Forms /15
Self-Defense /5
1 or 3 step Sparring /5
Sparring /5
Hand Techniques /10
Foot Techniques /10
Stance /10
Balance/Posture /5
Falls/Rolls /5
Terminology /5
Ki-Hap /5
Breaking /5

We are generally not tested unless we are ready, so failures are rare (but do happen.) A poor test performance could result in a temporary promotion, but you'll be forced to retest for that rank at the next testing.

We are also a small school, so testing only happens 3 or 4 times per year. Our style is also slower at progressing (when compared to a lot of WT Federation schools.) Lowest belts tend to go for 3+ months between testing, and this time increases as you advance. For example, people frequently stay at green belt (6th and 5th geup) for a total of a year or so.
_________________
6th Geup Jidokwan Tae Kwon Do/Hap Ki Do

(Never officially tested in aikido, iaido or kendo)
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message

Spartacus Maximus
Black Belt
Black Belt

Joined: 01 Jun 2014
Posts: 1372

Styles: Shorin ryu

PostPosted: Sun Jul 30, 2017 9:52 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

As simple as can be. This means that the person being evaluated must be able to do what is expected and not make any major technical mistakes for the level in question. Either one has the skills or does not. Failing matters very little if one has the will and determination to keep improving. How long it takes is never the same.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message

MatsuShinshii
Brown Belt
Brown Belt

Joined: 15 Aug 2016
Posts: 716
Location: Kentucky
Styles: Matsumura Shorin Ryu Rokudan 1979 to Present, Ryukyu Kenpo, Kobudo, Judo

PostPosted: Mon Jul 31, 2017 4:35 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I already know that they have passed before I test them. Why else would a student be asked to test, unless you thought they were ready?
_________________
The person who succeeds is not the one who holds back, fearing failure, nor the one who never fails-but the one who moves on in spite of failure.
Charles R. Swindoll
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message

Nidan Melbourne
KF Sempai
KF Sempai

Joined: 21 Aug 2013
Posts: 2106
Location: Melbourne, Australia
Styles: Goju-Ryu, BJJ, Balintawak Arnis

PostPosted: Mon Jul 31, 2017 11:12 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

MatsuShinshii wrote:
I already know that they have passed before I test them. Why else would a student be asked to test, unless you thought they were ready?


They may be ready to grade, but depends on their attitude and what they do during the physical grading itself where they may fail.

I know a couple of students that are absolutely amazing when they put the effort in and have the right attitude. But then they are also shocking when they don't want to put the effort into something.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message

singularity6
Green Belt
Green Belt

Joined: 26 Jun 2017
Posts: 447
Location: Michigan
Styles: Jidokwan Taekwondo and Hapkido, Yoshokai Aikido, ZNIR Iaido, Kendo

PostPosted: Tue Aug 01, 2017 6:50 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Nidan Melbourne wrote:
MatsuShinshii wrote:
I already know that they have passed before I test them. Why else would a student be asked to test, unless you thought they were ready?


They may be ready to grade, but depends on their attitude and what they do during the physical grading itself where they may fail.

I know a couple of students that are absolutely amazing when they put the effort in and have the right attitude. But then they are also shocking when they don't want to put the effort into something.


I can see an issue with this for children, but not so much for adults.
_________________
6th Geup Jidokwan Tae Kwon Do/Hap Ki Do

(Never officially tested in aikido, iaido or kendo)
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message

MatsuShinshii
Brown Belt
Brown Belt

Joined: 15 Aug 2016
Posts: 716
Location: Kentucky
Styles: Matsumura Shorin Ryu Rokudan 1979 to Present, Ryukyu Kenpo, Kobudo, Judo

PostPosted: Tue Aug 01, 2017 3:38 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Nidan Melbourne wrote:
MatsuShinshii wrote:
I already know that they have passed before I test them. Why else would a student be asked to test, unless you thought they were ready?


They may be ready to grade, but depends on their attitude and what they do during the physical grading itself where they may fail.

I know a couple of students that are absolutely amazing when they put the effort in and have the right attitude. But then they are also shocking when they don't want to put the effort into something.


Agreed that attitude and effort play a huge role but if this is a problem I would not allow them to test until the behavior has changed.

My following statements are not pointed at you or anyone else.

I think this part of the issue now-a-days. Students some how think they have the right to grade at a given time frame. This is in large part due to instructors or organizations implementing set time in grade standards. This is primarily due to the number of students in large or mega organizations because there is no way for an instructor to watch every student and know their progress or the lack thereof. So in a sense the instructor has no idea if the student will pass or fail, they just have an idea based on a few observations. In small Dojo's this is not a problem because you see and interact with your students every class and know without doubt when they are ready.

I have never had this problem (knock on wood). I did not implement a time frame for each grade and neither did my Shinshii. You're ready when the instructor feels you have gained the knowledge and skill for that grade and not before. If you have a behavior problem or exhibit a lack of effort, you don't test. Depending on the severity you could be shown the door.

I don't feel that just because an organization states that a Hachikyu should test in three months that this holds accurate, in fact I feel this is seldom the case. Establishing time frames negates the fact that each student will progress at their own rates depending on their physical and mental attributes. To set a standard is akin to saying that all of your students are clones and have the same abilities. This couldn't be further from the truth.

So I stick with my original statement, I already know they have achieved the grade before I invite them to test. If they were not ready why would you give them the chance to test? Unless you teach at a McDojo that makes their money off of multiple testings (and everything else) there is no purpose in testing a student you know will fail.

I guess if they become a behavioral problem during the test they could be failed. Minus the unlikely possibility that they develop a split personality and go crazy during the test, if they have put forth the effort, gained the knowledge and skill and exhibit this during the test I see no way they could fail.

Don't get me wrong, I have failed students in the past but that is when I was young and not as patient. Now they wait until I feel they are ready, no questions asked. I do not let my organization or my students dictate how I teach or when I test. They dictate their readiness after they have proven that they have learned the curriculum and gained the skills necessary. Their abilities will dictate how fast or how slow they progress not some standard that an organization puts out.
Once I see they are ready and unless something catastrophic happens, they will pass.
_________________
The person who succeeds is not the one who holds back, fearing failure, nor the one who never fails-but the one who moves on in spite of failure.
Charles R. Swindoll
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message

MatsuShinshii
Brown Belt
Brown Belt

Joined: 15 Aug 2016
Posts: 716
Location: Kentucky
Styles: Matsumura Shorin Ryu Rokudan 1979 to Present, Ryukyu Kenpo, Kobudo, Judo

PostPosted: Tue Aug 01, 2017 3:48 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

On another note; if your organization requires Yudansha to be tested at the Hombu or by other senior instructors then I can see where some could and do fail.

I wasn't thinking in these terms in my previous posts because I was thinking more of Mudansha gradings.

In this case it is very probable that the instructors have never seen the student or have only seen them a few chance occasions and given a certain time and upon the recommendation of ones teacher they would be called to test and could fail depending on the requirements and standards that a testing board would enforce. This is very probable.

So I guess I revise my previous statements too, if this is your direct student and you are capable (grade depending) of testing them I see no way that you do not know if they will pass or fail, if they are going before other instructors then there is a chance they could fail based on their standards and requirements. However I will supplement this with the following statement; if you are sending your student to be tested by a board you should already know their requirements and standards and unless the student chokes, should pass.
_________________
The person who succeeds is not the one who holds back, fearing failure, nor the one who never fails-but the one who moves on in spite of failure.
Charles R. Swindoll
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message

Nidan Melbourne
KF Sempai
KF Sempai

Joined: 21 Aug 2013
Posts: 2106
Location: Melbourne, Australia
Styles: Goju-Ryu, BJJ, Balintawak Arnis

PostPosted: Tue Aug 01, 2017 7:03 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Matsu - our club doesn't charge for gradings, as each of our memberships include gradings.

Additionally we look at gradings like you can be eligible to attend. But there is no guarantee that you will pass by just attending.

We hold students back in-grade in areas that we know they need additional development.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Display posts from previous:   
Post new topic   Reply to topic    KarateForums.com Forum Index -> Instructor Central All times are GMT - 6 Hours
Page 1 of 1
Jump to:  
You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum


< Advertising - Contact - Disclosure Policy - Staff - User Guidelines >