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KungFuLou
White Belt
Joined: 25 Sep 2003
Posts: 4
Location: New York
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 Posted: Thu Sep 25, 2003 1:17 pm Post subject: |
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I've seen that clip. It seems to me that he was not a master in any way, shape or form. The man was a college student that ran a small martial arts club for his university.
I was referring to real chi masters who are able to use the energies of the human body both FOR and AGAINST a man, even when resisting full force. This is not something that can be accurately demonstrated unless it is applied full force, much like a direct punch to the throat: few have executed that technique in practice the wasy they would in reality, but nobody doubts its effectiveness. |
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TJS
Black Belt
Joined: 27 Jan 2003
Posts: 1843
Styles: boxing, Thai boxing, BJJ,
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| Posted: Thu Sep 25, 2003 3:02 pm Post subject: |
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| im sure there mountain monks hidden away that could destroy us all. |
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goshinman
Blue Belt
Joined: 23 Jul 2003
Posts: 253
Location: pasadena,ca
Styles: hakko densin ryu jujutsu, shuai chiao, catchwrestling, and some judo/sambo
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JohnnyS
Green Belt
Joined: 17 Mar 2003
Posts: 444
Location: Australia
Styles: BJJ, Shootfighting, TKD, Goju
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| Posted: Thu Sep 25, 2003 5:12 pm Post subject: |
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I'll also point out that Vince Morris, British pressure-point karate master, visited my BJJ instructor while he was in Australia to see if pressure points would work in close against a grappler. He found out that they didn't.
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BJJ - Black Belt under John Will (Machado)
Shootfighting - 3rd Degree Black Belt
TKD - Black Belt |
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Cyph
Yellow Belt
Joined: 13 Jun 2003
Posts: 34
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| Posted: Thu Sep 25, 2003 9:42 pm Post subject: |
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Seems like another typical Grappling Vs Striking thread.
Most of the arguments have already been covered from both sides, but I would like to say that strikers don't know/understand the grappling range which makes them suspectible to take downs. Any grappling dojo worth their salt would have one person glove up while another practices their takedowns. Strikers realise how hard it is to keep the distance, grapplers learn their range where they can enter into the takedown.
IMO, a striker who knows and understands the grappling range, particularly where they enter for the takedown is a dangerous fighter.
Why argue over which is better? If a striker and a grappler clinch, it'll probably go to the ground with the grappler coming out on top, otherwise the grappler will most likely get KOed. They both complement each other nicely.
Stop burying your head in the sand of ignorance and go train both. |
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Warp Spider
Brown Belt
Joined: 03 Jul 2003
Posts: 615
Location: The Origin of the Universe
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| Posted: Thu Sep 25, 2003 9:46 pm Post subject: |
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| TJS wrote: |
| im sure there mountain monks hidden away that could destroy us all. |
I saw a documentary on the Shaolin Monks, and although it's probrably not all that accurate a depiction I'm sure, they still didn't look like all they're cracked up to be. They train a lot, but I think that Shaolin Kung Fu has fallen behind the other arts as far as R&D goes.
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Paladin - A holy beat down in the name of God! |
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AndrewGreen
Pre-Black Belt
Joined: 20 Aug 2002
Posts: 905
Location: Winnipeg, Canada
Styles: Crazy Penguin Ninjitsu
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| Posted: Fri Sep 26, 2003 12:45 am Post subject: |
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Karate doesn't have any ground work.
At least not traditionally anyway.
After the first UFC's proved how neccessary it was some instructors, rather then admit a fault in there system, did the "Oh yeah, we got that to..." bit.
Fred Ettish is a good example of what karate ground fighting was before BJJ got popular. Didn't work to well for him though... But that is exactly what "karate" taught to do on the ground.
Grappling is neccessary to fight a skilled opponent. Striking isn't, submissions aren't. But to win you'll need one of them.
You need to be able to move while seperatedm while clinched and while on the ground.
Pure grapplers do all three. Pure strikers do only one (entering clinch or ground is no longer pure striking.) That is why grapplers have the advantage, they know how to move in every range.
Whether they choose to look for a submission, look to improve position or strike in those ranges is up to them.
Funnily enough, a lot of wrestlers (pure grappling) win by strikes...
The question isn't grappling vs striking.
It's learning to move in all ranges vs learning to move in some ranges.
Which is better should be pretty obvious.
Guess it could turn to Strikes vs submissions... But thats a completely different issue
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Andrew Green
http://innovativema.ca - All the top martial arts news!
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shazaam
Yellow Belt
Joined: 25 Sep 2003
Posts: 94
Styles: Kickboxing, Karate, Jiu Jitsu
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| Posted: Fri Sep 26, 2003 5:36 am Post subject: |
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You must learn to cover all ranges of fighting. At any given moment one style or technique can reign supreme.
Open you mind and cross train. Good luck.
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Peace, Love, Harmony |
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fragbot
White Belt
Joined: 25 Sep 2003
Posts: 20
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| Posted: Fri Sep 26, 2003 10:46 am Post subject: |
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| TJS wrote: |
| KungFuLou wrote: |
| It would seem to me that when a person is very close, a master of pressure points and vital areas would be able to hurt them quite badly. Why has nobody mentioned this? |
George dillman wrote an article in Black belt magazine about how a "pressure point striker" could walk through the competition at the UFC..Luckily they gave him a chance to show everyone. Go rent UFC 7 and watch his top student Ryan Parker Get thrown and Choked out in the first round by a judoka name Remco Pardoe. |
A coupla small things. . .
Ryan Parker's an Okinawan Shorin Ryu guy. I don't know who his instructor is/was, but this makes it unlikely he's one of Dillman, Moneymaker or any of the other kyusho salesmen's students.
Secondly, Remco Pardoel is a jujitsu guy.
End result: a guy who can take (after adequate preparation, therein lies the rub for both kyusho and kiko) full power shots just about anywhere on his body lasted *36* seconds. . .not that Orlando Weit (ahh, anyone else nostalgic for the 250 lb v. 150 lb mismatches in the original UFCs?) did much better. |
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TJS
Black Belt
Joined: 27 Jan 2003
Posts: 1843
Styles: boxing, Thai boxing, BJJ,
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| Posted: Fri Sep 26, 2003 11:01 am Post subject: |
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| Quote: |
Ryan Parker's an Okinawan Shorin Ryu guy. I don't know who his instructor is/was, but this makes it unlikely he's one of Dillman, Moneymaker or any of the other kyusho salesmen's students.
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then why did they call him a "pressure point striker" but yes he also trained in Karate.
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Secondly, Remco Pardoel is a jujitsu guy.
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he was a multi time judo champion and also a jiu jitsu champion...but not bjj. |
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on the post.
