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Spartacus Maximus
Black Belt
Black Belt

Joined: 01 Jun 2014
Posts: 1703

Styles: Shorin ryu

PostPosted: Sat Dec 15, 2018 9:56 pm    Post subject: Guilty by association ? Reply with quote

Everyone has some character flaws and being skilled, admired and respected for is never a guarantee nor an indication of a personís moral quality. When an individual does something morally contemptible and criminal, the consequences are limited. It is always much worse when such a person belongs to a group, in which they have an important role of authority and influence.

The damage caused by the actions of these people extend far beyond their direct victim. It can even go so far as destroying the trust, reputation and credibility of anyone and everyone who are/were associated with them regardless of being aware of what they have done.

This very situation made it extremely difficult to be accepted because the previous instructorís teacher was in a high position in the association but had been found guilty of high-level fraud and other more serious crimes. Doors slammed shut at the mere mention of the name.

Once again recently there was a case where a direct student of a reputable Okinawan teacher has been found guilty of an extremely despicable and hateful crime involving victims who were minors. Some his students and worse still some were his own blood.

This man was an 8th dan who had trained under the same okinawan teacher for decades. Not only in good standing, but also appreciate, well-like and highly trusted by our teacher. He was even the highest representative and reference for our lineage and school in his country as well as several around.

Has anyone else had to deal with the consequences of such a personís actions? When the rotten apple is an authority is it really fair to also shun and break with their students as well? How would your school deal with this?
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sensei8
KF Sensei
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Joined: 23 Feb 2008
Posts: 14254
Location: Houston, TX
Styles: Shindokan Saitou-ryu [Shuri-te/Okinawa-te based]

PostPosted: Sun Dec 16, 2018 12:32 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
Has anyone else had to deal with the consequences of such a personís actions?

Directly?? No!! Indirectly?? Yes!! By directly, I speak for my own dojo!! By indirectly, I speak towards our Governing Body, the SKKA.

Quote:
When the rotten apple is an authority is it really fair to also shun and break with their students as well?

NO!! The fault belongs to the guilty party(s) all alone, and not with the innocent.

Quote:
How would your school deal with this?

Directly....I'd expel that/those found guilty party(s) immediately with cause!!

Indirectly, our SKKA has expelled a handful of it's membership of varying responsibilities, knowledge and experience with cause immediately once guilt was established in a court of law.

Having said that...

It's never fair to deal out unwarranted punishment(s) to the proven innocent, especially by and through association. Albeit, guilty by association occurs all of the time in history, past, present, and future to the innocent because we are fallible human beings who jump to our own conclusion with no basis whatsoever!!

Just because someone's a human being, it doesn't mean that that someone knows how to act like a human being!!

Those carried out punishments towards the proven innocent are despicable acts. Students that are associated with the guilty party(s) deserve their honor and privilege across the board.

Punish the proven guilty, but spare the proven innocent!!

If an unjust act is leveled on the proven innocent, and there's no changing their minds, then dust off yourself and remember...7 times down, 8 times up!! What's fair is fair and what's unfair is unfair, oftentimes there's nothing that can be done to right the wrong of others once their minds are up.

Imho!!



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MatsuShinshii
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Joined: 15 Aug 2016
Posts: 1423
Location: Kentucky
Styles: Machimura Suidi Rokudan, Ryukyu Kenpo, Kobudo, Judo

PostPosted: Sun Dec 16, 2018 1:17 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

No. We have never dealt with these types of criminal issues within our organization.

However there was an individual in another organization that had done the exact same thing (many counts) and it pretty much destroyed them. Unfortunately you automatically become guilty by association, especially if you teach kids. Parents just don't want to take chances. I can't blame them.

His senior grades opened another school under a different name and they are still around after 30 some years. If this happened to me, I'd start a new organization the next day and would never claim this man as part of my lineage. I have nothing but disdain for people like this and want nothing to do with them. There is not a punishment harsh enough in my mind.

It's unfortunate for instructors under the accused, as they too have lost any semblance of trust. But when you look at it from the students and parents perspective it's easy to understand. The worse thing in the world to me and something that is unforgivable is hurting a child. As a parent, I too would loose all trust with the organization and anyone connected to it whether guilty or not. Call it over protective but I call it being a parent. Unfortunately once this happens, it would be my suggestion to distance yourself so it doesn't take you down with it. I can guarantee you that as a parent I'd be removing my child from any classes as soon as I heard even a rumor of this type of behavior.
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bushido_man96
KF Sensei
KF Sensei

Joined: 31 Mar 2006
Posts: 27629
Location: Hays, KS
Styles: Taekwondo, Combat Hapkido, Aikido, GRACIE

PostPosted: Mon Dec 17, 2018 1:59 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

That's a really tough situation. I've been fortunate to not have to deal with anything like this.

It is an opportunity to make a point though, as to how well we actually think we may know someone. Being an LEO, I think I'm probably a little more jaded in this aspect than the most others (I'm sure Alex can relate, too).

The hardest part about this situation is the way social media is today, one bad person involved with an organization can end up demonizing the entire organization, which can be really hard to come back from. A re-branding could be attempted, but even that could prove a fruitless endeavor.

I'm not sure how my school would deal with such a situation. It could mean a complete break from the organization and becoming independent, or perhaps searching out another organization that would fit the direction of our school, and seek to find membership there, if its really needed.

Its a very interesting scenario to ponder, as the shake-up it would cause with the student body would need to be dealt with. The ripple effects could be felt throughout the student body's reaction, as well.
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sensei8
KF Sensei
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Joined: 23 Feb 2008
Posts: 14254
Location: Houston, TX
Styles: Shindokan Saitou-ryu [Shuri-te/Okinawa-te based]

PostPosted: Mon Dec 17, 2018 2:20 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

bushido_man96 wrote:
That's a really tough situation. I've been fortunate to not have to deal with anything like this.

It is an opportunity to make a point though, as to how well we actually think we may know someone. Being an LEO, I think I'm probably a little more jaded in this aspect than the most others (I'm sure Alex can relate, too).

The hardest part about this situation is the way social media is today, one bad person involved with an organization can end up demonizing the entire organization, which can be really hard to come back from. A re-branding could be attempted, but even that could prove a fruitless endeavor.

I'm not sure how my school would deal with such a situation. It could mean a complete break from the organization and becoming independent, or perhaps searching out another organization that would fit the direction of our school, and seek to find membership there, if its really needed.

Its a very interesting scenario to ponder, as the shake-up it would cause with the student body would need to be dealt with. The ripple effects could be felt throughout the student body's reaction, as well.

Solid post!!



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