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sensei8
KF Sensei
KF Sensei

Joined: 23 Feb 2008
Posts: 14301
Location: Houston, TX
Styles: Shindokan Saitou-ryu [Shuri-te/Okinawa-te based]

PostPosted: Fri Oct 17, 2014 8:26 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

anguspento wrote:
Yes age has caught up with me, my right leg keeps on getting damaged and i have had to call it a day with all forms of exercise, sad part i still feel okay and i am not 50 yet.

Welcome to KF; glad that you're here!!

Can you do less impact type exercises? Tai Chi might be a possibility for you, still!! May I ask, how does your right leg keep on getting damaged?

Hang in there!!



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Maybetrue
Yellow Belt
Yellow Belt

Joined: 25 Sep 2015
Posts: 78
Location: USA
Styles: karate

PostPosted: Mon Oct 19, 2015 11:31 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Here is my "gloomy MA" post for today.


From what i experienced. IT IS THE OLDER HIGHER RANKS that actually do more damage to martial arts than a 15 year old kid that has a black belt.


Kids = Pure learning & effort
Adults = Excuses & Short cuts
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sensei8
KF Sensei
KF Sensei

Joined: 23 Feb 2008
Posts: 14301
Location: Houston, TX
Styles: Shindokan Saitou-ryu [Shuri-te/Okinawa-te based]

PostPosted: Mon Oct 19, 2015 4:53 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Maybetrue wrote:
Here is my "gloomy MA" post for today.


From what i experienced. IT IS THE OLDER HIGHER RANKS that actually do more damage to martial arts than a 15 year old kid that has a black belt.


Kids = Pure learning & effort
Adults = Excuses & Short cuts

To the bold type above...

I fit that category, and by that I mean, I'm of the "OLDER HIGHER RANKS", yet, I sincerely believe that I've not done more damage or any damage to the MA.

I've not made any excuses and/or any short cuts during my 51 years in Shindokan; I believe that my integrity remains untainted, and that my students, as well as those that I've had the pleasure of sharing any given floor, can attest to that.

Being clumped in with those that have made you feel the way you do feel about older higher ranks, makes me feel ashamed. Ashamed because I can only speak for myself, and in that, I can't speak towards those who've done the injustice that can be found in any given MA.



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Maybetrue
Yellow Belt
Yellow Belt

Joined: 25 Sep 2015
Posts: 78
Location: USA
Styles: karate

PostPosted: Mon Oct 19, 2015 10:01 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

sensei8 wrote:
Maybetrue wrote:
Here is my "gloomy MA" post for today.


From what i experienced. IT IS THE OLDER HIGHER RANKS that actually do more damage to martial arts than a 15 year old kid that has a black belt.


Kids = Pure learning & effort
Adults = Excuses & Short cuts

To the bold type above...

I fit that category, and by that I mean, I'm of the "OLDER HIGHER RANKS", yet, I sincerely believe that I've not done more damage or any damage to the MA.

I've not made any excuses and/or any short cuts during my 51 years in Shindokan; I believe that my integrity remains untainted, and that my students, as well as those that I've had the pleasure of sharing any given floor, can attest to that.

Being clumped in with those that have made you feel the way you do feel about older higher ranks, makes me feel ashamed. Ashamed because I can only speak for myself, and in that, I can't speak towards those who've done the injustice that can be found in any given MA.




Just a "GENERALIZED" statement. into comparison to "Kid" black belts . Kids just train and could care less about "politics".

I have seen a lot of really bad,sad and outright "UN-MARTIAL ART" behavior by higher ranking BB's which really makes me sad and disappointed.


PS: Hate to say this, but the Higher rank demographics end up having a higher percentage of bad behavior ..... ouch.

You have to admit, just by reading posts, you kind of get the feeling of which members are students, instructors and experienced instructors. I guess becoming a higher ranking instructor a person will have to deal with all the politics and less than fun part of Martial Arts.

enough gloom and doom.
Martial Arts is great. The positives far outweigh the negatives.
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Hawkmoon
Pre-Black Belt
Pre-Black Belt

Joined: 17 Jun 2013
Posts: 891
Location: MK in the UK
Styles: Kyokushin

PostPosted: Tue Oct 20, 2015 11:35 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Maybetrue wrote:
sensei8 wrote:
Maybetrue wrote:
Here is my "gloomy MA" post for today.


From what i experienced. IT IS THE OLDER HIGHER RANKS that actually do more damage to martial arts than a 15 year old kid that has a black belt.


Kids = Pure learning & effort
Adults = Excuses & Short cuts

To the bold type above...

I fit that category, and by that I mean, I'm of the "OLDER HIGHER RANKS", yet, I sincerely believe that I've not done more damage or any damage to the MA.

I've not made any excuses and/or any short cuts during my 51 years in Shindokan; I believe that my integrity remains untainted, and that my students, as well as those that I've had the pleasure of sharing any given floor, can attest to that.

Being clumped in with those that have made you feel the way you do feel about older higher ranks, makes me feel ashamed. Ashamed because I can only speak for myself, and in that, I can't speak towards those who've done the injustice that can be found in any given MA.




Just a "GENERALIZED" statement. into comparison to "Kid" black belts . Kids just train and could care less about "politics".

I have seen a lot of really bad,sad and outright "UN-MARTIAL ART" behavior by higher ranking BB's which really makes me sad and disappointed.


PS: Hate to say this, but the Higher rank demographics end up having a higher percentage of bad behavior ..... ouch.

You have to admit, just by reading posts, you kind of get the feeling of which members are students, instructors and experienced instructors. I guess becoming a higher ranking instructor a person will have to deal with all the politics and less than fun part of Martial Arts.

enough gloom and doom.
Martial Arts is great. The positives far outweigh the negatives.


This ... this is really interesting, to turn a few things around ....


Quote:
Kids = Pure learning & effort
Adults = Excuses & Short cuts


&

Quote:
... Hate to say this, but the Higher rank demographics end up having a higher percentage of bad behavior ..... ouch.

You have to admit, just by reading posts, you kind of get the feeling of which members are students, instructors and experienced instructors. I guess becoming a higher ranking instructor a person will have to deal with all the politics and less than fun part of Martial Arts.


Yes I know I've pulled two points out of a much more meaningful even deeper conversation they are however the crux of the position of BB v Shodan v child v adult.

quote 1, very true even very accurate for some, maybe most, but not all.

quote 2, there is a couple of instructors that come to mind who do exactly this.
Bad habits yours are a huge focus and discussion point (not there own bad habits, just yours) and a love of politics to the extent they are used as some aloof sense of power over others have been granted and .. bin'go ban'go your rubbish and get out of the dojo and don't come back!
(This behavior I find to be more in line with character from 'The Hobbit: The Battle of the Five Armies', the slimy one who 'serves' the master and calls the hero Bard the Bowman 'king!')

Its that 'world' that built that thinking and that world is not here today, today the world is different!

Then to live until you were 30 or 40 years old made you by that milestone the village elder, romantic'a'notion or not the world then was extremely violent and personal in its violence, all sharp edges and bare hands ... !

I passed my Shodan a little ago this year, to do this I worked hard and 'fit' in with quote 1, pure learning & effort.
Now I'm sitting back and just working at 'stuff', not pushing hard for anything, not working up to a tournament or another grading, just ticking over. The belt around my waste I'm coming to realize is not allowing me to do this!

Does that mean I fit the second part of quote 1?
Am I in my 'switched' off frame of mind more like quote 2?

I think to a degree I do fit quote 2, the rank I hold carries a certain expectation with it! Whilst I'm 'switched off' I'm not anywhere near that expectation ... but near what exactly?
I have no desire or plan to be an instructor, I have no plan or desire to further my fight career, why can't I just be a student for now and just enjoy what I do?
It seems to me that others and what they expect of the belt and the person it is wrapped around is 'switched' on permanently!
If that is so, then that's an age thing isn't it?
With age comes more understanding and a more measured expectation ... or is the black belt in some unconscious universe still some kind of extra special <..insert phrase of choice..>?
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sensei8
KF Sensei
KF Sensei

Joined: 23 Feb 2008
Posts: 14301
Location: Houston, TX
Styles: Shindokan Saitou-ryu [Shuri-te/Okinawa-te based]

PostPosted: Tue Oct 20, 2015 12:49 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Maybetrue wrote:
sensei8 wrote:
Maybetrue wrote:
Here is my "gloomy MA" post for today.


From what i experienced. IT IS THE OLDER HIGHER RANKS that actually do more damage to martial arts than a 15 year old kid that has a black belt.


Kids = Pure learning & effort
Adults = Excuses & Short cuts

To the bold type above...

I fit that category, and by that I mean, I'm of the "OLDER HIGHER RANKS", yet, I sincerely believe that I've not done more damage or any damage to the MA.

I've not made any excuses and/or any short cuts during my 51 years in Shindokan; I believe that my integrity remains untainted, and that my students, as well as those that I've had the pleasure of sharing any given floor, can attest to that.

Being clumped in with those that have made you feel the way you do feel about older higher ranks, makes me feel ashamed. Ashamed because I can only speak for myself, and in that, I can't speak towards those who've done the injustice that can be found in any given MA.




Just a "GENERALIZED" statement. into comparison to "Kid" black belts . Kids just train and could care less about "politics".

I have seen a lot of really bad,sad and outright "UN-MARTIAL ART" behavior by higher ranking BB's which really makes me sad and disappointed.


PS: Hate to say this, but the Higher rank demographics end up having a higher percentage of bad behavior ..... ouch.

You have to admit, just by reading posts, you kind of get the feeling of which members are students, instructors and experienced instructors. I guess becoming a higher ranking instructor a person will have to deal with all the politics and less than fun part of Martial Arts.

enough gloom and doom.
Martial Arts is great. The positives far outweigh the negatives.

Generalized...ok...fair enough! Does your Sensei fit in the category of being an "OLDER HIGHER RANKS"??

In Shindokan, not all older higher ranks deal with the day in and day out operations of our governing body, but just with their own daily operations from their own dojo, and even that, some only sit on a testing cycles panel from time to time...they too, just want to train without the politics.

I do agree, that I too have seen the older higher ranks have damaged the integrity of the MA by, for example, rank gouging; they can't be satisfied with the last rank that their Sensei bestowed upon them through a testing cycle. No, they want to be that Judan/Soke and so on and so forth; their MA resume looks like a shopping list of "look at me...aren't I impressive!?!?!?!". That to me is the sadness that's been a cancer to the integrity of the MA.



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Maybetrue
Yellow Belt
Yellow Belt

Joined: 25 Sep 2015
Posts: 78
Location: USA
Styles: karate

PostPosted: Tue Oct 20, 2015 2:15 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

sensei8 wrote:
Maybetrue wrote:
sensei8 wrote:
Maybetrue wrote:
Here is my "gloomy MA" post for today.


From what i experienced. IT IS THE OLDER HIGHER RANKS that actually do more damage to martial arts than a 15 year old kid that has a black belt.


Kids = Pure learning & effort
Adults = Excuses & Short cuts

To the bold type above...

I fit that category, and by that I mean, I'm of the "OLDER HIGHER RANKS", yet, I sincerely believe that I've not done more damage or any damage to the MA.

I've not made any excuses and/or any short cuts during my 51 years in Shindokan; I believe that my integrity remains untainted, and that my students, as well as those that I've had the pleasure of sharing any given floor, can attest to that.

Being clumped in with those that have made you feel the way you do feel about older higher ranks, makes me feel ashamed. Ashamed because I can only speak for myself, and in that, I can't speak towards those who've done the injustice that can be found in any given MA.




Just a "GENERALIZED" statement. into comparison to "Kid" black belts . Kids just train and could care less about "politics".

I have seen a lot of really bad,sad and outright "UN-MARTIAL ART" behavior by higher ranking BB's which really makes me sad and disappointed.


PS: Hate to say this, but the Higher rank demographics end up having a higher percentage of bad behavior ..... ouch.

You have to admit, just by reading posts, you kind of get the feeling of which members are students, instructors and experienced instructors. I guess becoming a higher ranking instructor a person will have to deal with all the politics and less than fun part of Martial Arts.

enough gloom and doom.
Martial Arts is great. The positives far outweigh the negatives.

Generalized...ok...fair enough! Does your Sensei fit in the category of being an "OLDER HIGHER RANKS"??

In Shindokan, not all older higher ranks deal with the day in and day out operations of our governing body, but just with their own daily operations from their own dojo, and even that, some only sit on a testing cycles panel from time to time...they too, just want to train without the politics.

I do agree, that I too have seen the older higher ranks have damaged the integrity of the MA by, for example, rank gouging; they can't be satisfied with the last rank that their Sensei bestowed upon them through a testing cycle. No, they want to be that Judan/Soke and so on and so forth; their MA resume looks like a shopping list of "look at me...aren't I impressive!?!?!?!". That to me is the sadness that's been a cancer to the integrity of the MA.




I might even be consider OLDER HIGHER RANKS by my students(instructors) students(kids) at this point. i have seen 3 generation family "tree"training in one of the dojos (parents that were black belts, child that were black belts and now grandchild starting to train). I GUESS I AM OFFICIALLY OLD NOW.

a true example of what i do NOT LIKE:
One of my own students that i kick out of my dojo is a "master" "soke" "grandmaster", whatever he is call himself now days, of 5 styles minimum with a black belt in over 20 styles. he is physically and capable enough to fool a lot of people in the MA community(he does seminars all over the world). Just sad and disappointed , i still consider him a friend and nice person that never did anything bad to me directly, just had to kick him out because the other members,instructors,parents and even instructors from different organization and styles were complaining about him too much. I am sure this happens all the time with all styles.

Loyalty is probably the most important philosophy with martial arts. But that is a whole long debate saved for OLDER HIGHER RANKS.

I really hate to be the gloomy person in a MA forum.
MARTIAL ARTS IS GREAT! There are way more positive than negative.
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sensei8
KF Sensei
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Joined: 23 Feb 2008
Posts: 14301
Location: Houston, TX
Styles: Shindokan Saitou-ryu [Shuri-te/Okinawa-te based]

PostPosted: Tue Oct 20, 2015 5:40 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Btw, Maybetrue, you're not gloomy, imho!! You're just stating what you believe!! I respect that!!



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JR 137
KF Sempai
KF Sempai

Joined: 10 May 2015
Posts: 2349
Location: In the dojo
Styles: Seido Juku

PostPosted: Tue Nov 24, 2015 8:53 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

A very interesting topic. Junior black belt is one of those things that just doesn't sit well with me. I keep telling myself that I should accept it, but I just can't. I see black belt as something almost sacred. Yes, it's just a piece of cloth, but what it should represent is something much more than a child is inherently capable of IMO.

I have a few students who are junior black belts (I'm a school teacher, not a MA teacher). They always seem to forget to say the "junior" part, conveniently. I don't think 5th-8th graders (my student grades) have any business wearing anything remotely close to a black belt. I must say that the ones who are junior black belts are more mature than most of their classmates, but that doesn't justify it IMO.

Not that it hurt my ego in any way, shape, or form by any means, but a non-MA student really put all my feelings into perspective one day...

Student to me: "You take karate?"
Me: "Yes"
Student: "Are you a black belt?"
Me: "No"
Student: "Gerrard (fellow 5th grader) is a black belt. He must be better than you are."
Me: "How so?"
Student: "Because he's a black belt and you're not."

All I could think was do you really think a 5th grader is more mature than a 39 year old? Do you really think he'd stand a chance against me?

Me: "I'm sure he worked very hard for a very long time to earn his black belt."

I know it shouldn't bother me, but kids having this rank just devalues the rank. People think MA is a joke. Seeing 10 year olds running around wearing black belts makes me think they've got a point.

I think BJJ got it right with completely different belt colors for kids, and no junior black belts.

But hey, there's tons of adults who have no business wearing a black belt either, so I guess it's all good. At least the unworthy adults aren't immediately identifiable like a 10 year old is.

I hate that I feel this way, but I genuinely haven't come across any concrete reason not to feel this way.
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sensei8
KF Sensei
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Joined: 23 Feb 2008
Posts: 14301
Location: Houston, TX
Styles: Shindokan Saitou-ryu [Shuri-te/Okinawa-te based]

PostPosted: Tue Nov 24, 2015 10:50 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

JR 137 wrote:
A very interesting topic. Junior black belt is one of those things that just doesn't sit well with me. I keep telling myself that I should accept it, but I just can't. I see black belt as something almost sacred. Yes, it's just a piece of cloth, but what it should represent is something much more than a child is inherently capable of IMO.

I have a few students who are junior black belts (I'm a school teacher, not a MA teacher). They always seem to forget to say the "junior" part, conveniently. I don't think 5th-8th graders (my student grades) have any business wearing anything remotely close to a black belt. I must say that the ones who are junior black belts are more mature than most of their classmates, but that doesn't justify it IMO.

Not that it hurt my ego in any way, shape, or form by any means, but a non-MA student really put all my feelings into perspective one day...

Student to me: "You take karate?"
Me: "Yes"
Student: "Are you a black belt?"
Me: "No"
Student: "Gerrard (fellow 5th grader) is a black belt. He must be better than you are."
Me: "How so?"
Student: "Because he's a black belt and you're not."

All I could think was do you really think a 5th grader is more mature than a 39 year old? Do you really think he'd stand a chance against me?

Me: "I'm sure he worked very hard for a very long time to earn his black belt."

I know it shouldn't bother me, but kids having this rank just devalues the rank. People think MA is a joke. Seeing 10 year olds running around wearing black belts makes me think they've got a point.

I think BJJ got it right with completely different belt colors for kids, and no junior black belts.

But hey, there's tons of adults who have no business wearing a black belt either, so I guess it's all good. At least the unworthy adults aren't immediately identifiable like a 10 year old is.

I hate that I feel this way, but I genuinely haven't come across any concrete reason not to feel this way.

Solid post!!

To the bold type above...

How do you think I feel about it?? I was a JBB at age 13 years old, and couldn't earn anything of rank above that until I turned 18 years old.



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