|
|
| Author |
Message |
MatsuShinshii
Black Belt
Joined: 15 Aug 2016
Posts: 1423
Location: Kentucky
Styles: Machimura Suidi Rokudan, Ryukyu Kenpo, Kobudo, Judo
|
 Posted: Tue Aug 30, 2016 4:30 pm Post subject: |
 |
|
| sensei8 wrote: |
| MatsuShinshii wrote: |
Higher ranks are often given to those that are worthy based on knowledge, years of service to the organization and contribution to the art.
Some arts stop testing for rank after Godan, Rokudan or Nanadan. You can request to be tested but it is but a formality and this is more or less to satisfy the recipient and not the board as the decision is already made.
This is somewhat common place within the arts. The problem as I see it is not so much Kodansha receiving rank but giving rank to those undeserving to get them to switch associations/organizations or to trade rank as is often the case with some arts.
If you have been studying for years/centuries and have proven yourself, the board or organization head has every right to promote you based on your merits passed a certain rank/grade (Godan, Rokudan, Nanadan, Hachidan). Giving someone a rank that has never even stepped foot on your Dojo floor just to get them to change organizations or as a bribe to give you rank in their art IMHO is disgraceful. |
I suppose that that's how my Kudan came about. I refused the promotion over and over and over, even though our By-Laws states that whomever is elected to Kaicho, that individual will be promoted to the rank of Kudan.
I didn't like that, I still don't like it, and I refused to accept Kudan because of some rule in our By-Laws, repeatedly. Even my Dai-Soke spoke with me about this very same thing, and after we had talked, he understood my reasons, even though he didn't agree with them all, he told everyone to leave me alone.
So, perhaps my Kudan was already decided upon way back, and under the guise of a Testing Cycle, one that I demanded, they awarded me my Kudan. Again, in my heart of hearts, I'm Hachidan, and I'm content with that.
In Shindokan, all ranks up to, and including Hachidan, are tested for their ranks, in both karate-do and kobudo. Only Kudan and Judan are awarded through the auspices of our By-Laws. And I still believe, so was MY Kudan!!
 |
I agree with you and respect your feelings on the subject.
I have passed on promotion 4 times in my journey and only accepted a position/title after Shinshii explained to me that I had expectations and had built up what each level should be in my mind. That others around you can see what you can not and sometimes you have to respect the decisions of others especially when they see you for what you are.
If your organization felt that you were worthy of such a title, rank and position they probably are right even though you felt differently.
I respect that you forced them to legitimize it by having them test you. And to speak more so to the reasons behind your promotion; If you do what I did and take yourself out of the picture and switch positions, looking at yourself as anyone else would, would you feel the same? Would you promote yourself and grant your position?
The art teaches us to be humble, selfless and to set lofty goals for ourselves. It is sometimes hard to accept what others see or what is best for the organization as a whole when it does not fit into our own perceptions caused by our training.
Based on the few posts I have read of yours I tend to agree with their decision. |
|
| Back to top |
|
 |
sensei8
KF Sensei
Joined: 23 Feb 2008
Posts: 16420
Location: Las Vegas, NV
Styles: Shindokan Saitou-ryu [Shuri-te/Okinawa-te based]
|
| Posted: Wed Aug 31, 2016 4:12 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| MatsuShinshii wrote: |
| sensei8 wrote: |
| MatsuShinshii wrote: |
Higher ranks are often given to those that are worthy based on knowledge, years of service to the organization and contribution to the art.
Some arts stop testing for rank after Godan, Rokudan or Nanadan. You can request to be tested but it is but a formality and this is more or less to satisfy the recipient and not the board as the decision is already made.
This is somewhat common place within the arts. The problem as I see it is not so much Kodansha receiving rank but giving rank to those undeserving to get them to switch associations/organizations or to trade rank as is often the case with some arts.
If you have been studying for years/centuries and have proven yourself, the board or organization head has every right to promote you based on your merits passed a certain rank/grade (Godan, Rokudan, Nanadan, Hachidan). Giving someone a rank that has never even stepped foot on your Dojo floor just to get them to change organizations or as a bribe to give you rank in their art IMHO is disgraceful. |
I suppose that that's how my Kudan came about. I refused the promotion over and over and over, even though our By-Laws states that whomever is elected to Kaicho, that individual will be promoted to the rank of Kudan.
I didn't like that, I still don't like it, and I refused to accept Kudan because of some rule in our By-Laws, repeatedly. Even my Dai-Soke spoke with me about this very same thing, and after we had talked, he understood my reasons, even though he didn't agree with them all, he told everyone to leave me alone.
So, perhaps my Kudan was already decided upon way back, and under the guise of a Testing Cycle, one that I demanded, they awarded me my Kudan. Again, in my heart of hearts, I'm Hachidan, and I'm content with that.
In Shindokan, all ranks up to, and including Hachidan, are tested for their ranks, in both karate-do and kobudo. Only Kudan and Judan are awarded through the auspices of our By-Laws. And I still believe, so was MY Kudan!!
|
I agree with you and respect your feelings on the subject.
I have passed on promotion 4 times in my journey and only accepted a position/title after Shinshii explained to me that I had expectations and had built up what each level should be in my mind. That others around you can see what you can not and sometimes you have to respect the decisions of others especially when they see you for what you are.
If your organization felt that you were worthy of such a title, rank and position they probably are right even though you felt differently.
I respect that you forced them to legitimize it by having them test you. And to speak more so to the reasons behind your promotion; If you do what I did and take yourself out of the picture and switch positions, looking at yourself as anyone else would, would you feel the same? Would you promote yourself and grant your position?
The art teaches us to be humble, selfless and to set lofty goals for ourselves. It is sometimes hard to accept what others see or what is best for the organization as a whole when it does not fit into our own perceptions caused by our training.
Based on the few posts I have read of yours I tend to agree with their decision. |
Solid post!!
For no other reason, I suppose that my loyalty to my Sensei, Yoshinobu Takahashi, Dai-Soke, still yearns for HIS approval. Everything that I ever earned was under HIM, and within me, I still yearn for HIS approval, even though he's no longer with us. His approval, is that stamp!! If anything that I've earned doesn't have his stamp, then I feel unworthy to the nth degree.
I shouldn't, but I do, at times!!
Would I feel the same about my Kudan, had he conducted that Testing Cycle himself?? I suppose not!! But, he didn't, because he couldn't; that void in my heart is as big now as it was when he passed away.
_________________
**Proof is on the floor!!! |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Spartacus Maximus
Black Belt
Joined: 01 Jun 2014
Posts: 1902
Styles: Shorin ryu
|
| Posted: Sat Sep 03, 2016 6:49 am Post subject: |
|
|
Indeed. Loyalty to an instructor is not something easily understood by the average martial arts student, but it is something that many who learned from old fashioned teachers might be more familiar with.
Politics aside, it is of very little merit to accept the judgment of one's skill level by anyone who has not had enough time to observe and evaluate it. This is the most logical reason not to accept any rank or level from someone who is not one's instructor |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
el-peligroso
Yellow Belt
Joined: 16 Oct 2016
Posts: 34
Location: YYZ
Styles: Brazilian Jiu-jitsu, Jujutsu, Kickboxing, Muay Thai
|
| Posted: Mon Oct 17, 2016 11:46 am Post subject: |
|
|
A lot of BJJ gyms promote students without a formal test. Your instructor just watches your progress and when he or she feels that you're ready then you get striped or moved up in belt rank.
I think that is the best way. Formal gradings are just a cash grab anyway.
_________________
If you make a mistake, learn to live with it - your parents did. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
The Pred
Green Belt
Joined: 26 Jun 2003
Posts: 385
Styles: Goju Ryu
|
| Posted: Tue Oct 18, 2016 1:23 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| If one thinks about when some people join a dojo. They get a white belt, so technically that's not being tested for. Unless your school makes you test for white belt. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
LLLEARNER
Brown Belt
Joined: 10 Feb 2016
Posts: 687
Location: Central Maine
|
| Posted: Tue Oct 18, 2016 3:28 pm Post subject: |
|
|
Joining ca be the test. Even white belts are not given to non-participants.
_________________
"Those who know don't talk. Those who talk don't know." ~ Lao-tzu, Tao Te Ching
"Walk a single path, becoming neither cocky with victory nor broken with defeat, without forgetting caution when all is quiet or becoming frightened when danger threatens." ~ Jigaro Kano |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
MatsuShinshii
Black Belt
Joined: 15 Aug 2016
Posts: 1423
Location: Kentucky
Styles: Machimura Suidi Rokudan, Ryukyu Kenpo, Kobudo, Judo
|
| Posted: Tue Oct 18, 2016 5:01 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| LLLEARNER wrote: |
| Joining ca be the test. Even white belts are not given to non-participants. |
Good point. Mustering up the courage to strike out into the unknown is a step up above those that are not willing to put themselves on the line and try.
Well said sir. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
|
|
on the post.
