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Alan Armstrong
Black Belt
Black Belt

Joined: 28 Feb 2016
Posts: 2410


PostPosted: Fri Jul 07, 2017 6:21 pm    Post subject: Health and Training Information Reply with quote

Living in the information age is very enlightening!

Gathering or searching for information on martial arts has never been so abundant.

Martial artists are better informed today than any other time in history due to the internet.

Better still we can now have insights in to many types of martial arts and other ways of training from gymnasts, bodybuilders and dancers.

Personal trainers and yoga instructors, also those in the medical profession are more than willing to share their wisdom, knowledge and expertise.

Surprisingly, there isn't any new types of martial art styles emerging, with all this accessible information.

Bruce Lee had two thousand books to help his JKD, can you imagine if he was living in our time, with internet access at his disposal.

As with medical advances and such things as sports medicine, are we using or meeting these advances half way?

Is it possible in our time, to absorb all of this useful health and training information sensibly?
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JR 137
KF Sempai
KF Sempai

Joined: 10 May 2015
Posts: 2382
Location: In the dojo
Styles: Seido Juku

PostPosted: Fri Jul 07, 2017 8:40 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Just my opinions based on what I've seen...

Competitive MA athletes such as MMAers, Olympians, and even amateur competitors are benefiting from it. They're looking into different strength and conditioning, flexibility, and strategy stuff. And video is far more effective at communicating it than the books we grew up with.

Many traditionalists are hanging onto the old ways. Some are too stubborn to change even minor things such as warmup and stretching routines. Believe it or not, some still have the mindset that lifting weights will decrease performance.

Yes, I'm stereotyping, but it's just what I've seen.

IMO everyone needs to keep an eye on current scientific research. That doesn't mean jumping on the latest fad, but it does mean incorporating scientifically proven things into what they're doing; basically altering some things.

There's still a lot to be said for the old school stuff. A lot of things that were basically forgotten about have come back. Squat thrusts (aka burpees) and mountain climbers were staples when I was in school. They somehow faded away, and were recently made cool again. Same for carrying sand bags and other oddly shaped and distributed weighted stuff.

The old school stuff has a mental edge to it that the new stuff just doesn't have IMO. There's Kyokushin videos of guys climbing stone steps using their knuckles while a partner holds their feet, amongst other things. I saw videos of Iowa's wrestling team doing the same thing, only on their palms and inside their arena. Beyond strength, stuff like that builds mental toughness. The stuff we did when I was wrestling would probably get laughed at today, until the people laughing actually did it. Then it would probably be another story.
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Nidan Melbourne
KF Sempai
KF Sempai

Joined: 21 Aug 2013
Posts: 2207
Location: Melbourne, Australia
Styles: Goju-Ryu, BJJ, Balintawak Arnis

PostPosted: Fri Jul 07, 2017 10:15 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

A lot of athletes see a lot more people in the Health Industry than the Fitness Industry. As many of my friends who are also Chief Instructors work in the Health Industry (Physiotherapy, Massage Therapy, Exercise Science + Exercise Physiology etc).

There is a tonne of research going on in atm that can benefit martial artists. But you need to know how to read and interpret that research in how to apply it.

I don't see any problem with people absorbing information, but if they don't take into account with other information that could impact ones health. And like JR said that you shouldn't just go for every fad out there.
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Alan Armstrong
Black Belt
Black Belt

Joined: 28 Feb 2016
Posts: 2410


PostPosted: Sun Jul 09, 2017 6:33 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I would never have bothered looking in to professional therapy techniques or theories, or the nutritional effects of food, if not for hitting rock bottom and ended up in cardio rehab; eight years ago.

The cardiac rehabilitation did put me back on track but realistically way better than ever.

The technology regarding heart issues that saved my life, gave me a very up close look, knowing there are solutions to heal and ways to prevent health problems occuring and simple methods to enhance ones health, is reassuring to know.
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LLLEARNER
Brown Belt
Brown Belt

Joined: 10 Feb 2016
Posts: 687
Location: Central Maine

PostPosted: Sun Jul 09, 2017 9:36 am    Post subject: Re: Health and Training Information Reply with quote

Alan Armstrong wrote:
Living in the information age is very enlightening!

Gathering or searching for information on martial arts has never been so abundant.

Martial artists are better informed today than any other time in history due to the internet.

Better still we can now have insights in to many types of martial arts and other ways of training from gymnasts, bodybuilders and dancers.

Personal trainers and yoga instructors, also those in the medical profession are more than willing to share their wisdom, knowledge and expertise.

Surprisingly, there isn't any new types of martial art styles emerging, with all this accessible information.

Bruce Lee had two thousand books to help his JKD, can you imagine if he was living in our time, with internet access at his disposal.

As with medical advances and such things as sports medicine, are we using or meeting these advances half way?

Is it possible in our time, to absorb all of this useful health and training information sensibly?


My marketing, and economics study gives some insight.

Early innovators such as examined by von Hippel in "Democratizing Innovation" uses mountain bikers as an example. The extreme athletes develop a product to give a competitive advantage, such as new pedal or frame technology for private use. One or a group then sells the product to the next level down users who are willing to pay for the competitive advantage but not create it. This lowers the cost of production through scaling for more people to have access to it.
Advanced performance knowledge can be considers the same. The pro athletes started using dynamic stretching due to studies indicating a lower risk of injury. They have a distinct monetary advantage to fewer injuries and the resources to fund such studies. The information is passed to non-pro but passionate athletes and filters down from there.

Speaking of old school stuff...
Did older generations of MA students have to do knuckle pushups on bare concrete? Or is that the MA equivalent of walking 5 miles to school up hill both ways?

I actually agree with using old school training techniques. They were developed over centuries by hundreds of thousands if not millions of people even though modern scientific studies did not exist. For instance, I see chi/ki energy as a non-scientific explanation of the use of core strength.

Plus, the old methods sucked in a great manner. The suck built mental toughness rather than the clinical application of scientific research in a gym on shiny equipment. Navy SEAL recruits spend enormous amounts of time in cold water to not only improve swimming ability (which can be done in a nice warm pool), but to build surf zone comfort and mental toughness. The mental conditioning improves athletic performance and reduces the number of and severeness of PTSD. Cold water in short shorts SUCKS.
_________________
"Those who know don't talk. Those who talk don't know." ~ Lao-tzu, Tao Te Ching

"Walk a single path, becoming neither cocky with victory nor broken with defeat, without forgetting caution when all is quiet or becoming frightened when danger threatens." ~ Jigaro Kano
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Alan Armstrong
Black Belt
Black Belt

Joined: 28 Feb 2016
Posts: 2410


PostPosted: Fri Jul 21, 2017 11:41 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

LLLEARNER wrote:
Alan Armstrong wrote:
Living in the information age is very enlightening!

Gathering or searching for information on martial arts has never been so abundant.

Martial artists are better informed today than any other time in history due to the internet.

Better still we can now have insights in to many types of martial arts and other ways of training from gymnasts, bodybuilders and dancers.

Personal trainers and yoga instructors, also those in the medical profession are more than willing to share their wisdom, knowledge and expertise.

Surprisingly, there isn't any new types of martial art styles emerging, with all this accessible information.

Bruce Lee had two thousand books to help his JKD, can you imagine if he was living in our time, with internet access at his disposal.

As with medical advances and such things as sports medicine, are we using or meeting these advances half way?

Is it possible in our time, to absorb all of this useful health and training information sensibly?


My marketing, and economics study gives some insight.

Early innovators such as examined by von Hippel in "Democratizing Innovation" uses mountain bikers as an example. The extreme athletes develop a product to give a competitive advantage, such as new pedal or frame technology for private use. One or a group then sells the product to the next level down users who are willing to pay for the competitive advantage but not create it. This lowers the cost of production through scaling for more people to have access to it.
Advanced performance knowledge can be considers the same. The pro athletes started using dynamic stretching due to studies indicating a lower risk of injury. They have a distinct monetary advantage to fewer injuries and the resources to fund such studies. The information is passed to non-pro but passionate athletes and filters down from there.

Speaking of old school stuff...
Did older generations of MA students have to do knuckle pushups on bare concrete? Or is that the MA equivalent of walking 5 miles to school up hill both ways?

I actually agree with using old school training techniques. They were developed over centuries by hundreds of thousands if not millions of people even though modern scientific studies did not exist. For instance, I see chi/ki energy as a non-scientific explanation of the use of core strength.

Plus, the old methods sucked in a great manner. The suck built mental toughness rather than the clinical application of scientific research in a gym on shiny equipment. Navy SEAL recruits spend enormous amounts of time in cold water to not only improve swimming ability (which can be done in a nice warm pool), but to build surf zone comfort and mental toughness. The mental conditioning improves athletic performance and reduces the number of and severeness of PTSD. Cold water in short shorts SUCKS.
Good stuff/comments LLLEARNER.

Out doors with the rain coming down steadily in a jungle gym for the public.

Just myself and a karate guy about the same age of 60.

I could tell he was a karate guy due to his exercises.

Just for a change I asked him if I could go along and copy his workout; he agreed.

It was all the stuff learned in PT class in school.

I believe in being a four season outdoor training enthusiast, far too much training indoors will make a person forget that combat takes place most of the time, outside of ones own comfort zones; in elements other than fluorescent lighting and soft padded flooring.
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JazzKicker
Orange Belt
Orange Belt

Joined: 07 Aug 2017
Posts: 134
Location: NJ
Styles: JKD, TSD, MMA

PostPosted: Mon Aug 07, 2017 1:08 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Sure there have been new styles of martial arts emerge in the Internet age- they're called "MMA" generically. But coincident with that was the rise of the UFC, which pretty much destroyed the notion of superior styles, reducing it raw athleticism (and having a good ground game).

Yes, old school training worked, and still does, but modern, science based sports training can be more effective and less risky, injury wise. I do think more traditional training imparts both a mental toughness and muscle memory through repetition and skills training that can't be learned from YouTube.
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singularity6
Pre-Black Belt
Pre-Black Belt

Joined: 26 Jun 2017
Posts: 958
Location: Michigan
Styles: Jidokwan Taekwondo and Hapkido, Yoshokai Aikido, ZNIR Iaido, Kendo

PostPosted: Tue Aug 08, 2017 6:35 am    Post subject: Re: Health and Training Information Reply with quote

Alan Armstrong wrote:
Living in the information age is very enlightening!

Gathering or searching for information on martial arts has never been so abundant.

Martial artists are better informed today than any other time in history due to the internet.

Better still we can now have insights in to many types of martial arts and other ways of training from gymnasts, bodybuilders and dancers.

Personal trainers and yoga instructors, also those in the medical profession are more than willing to share their wisdom, knowledge and expertise.

Surprisingly, there isn't any new types of martial art styles emerging, with all this accessible information.

Bruce Lee had two thousand books to help his JKD, can you imagine if he was living in our time, with internet access at his disposal.

As with medical advances and such things as sports medicine, are we using or meeting these advances half way?

Is it possible in our time, to absorb all of this useful health and training information sensibly?


To answer the things in bold:

1) I feel that the "we've always done it this way" mentality in martial arts can keep us from progressing too fast. How many of you out there still do static stretching BEFORE your class? Research indicates that a 10-15 minute warm up with some basic motions and dynamic stretching is far superior, and that static stretching can decrease performance or even lead to injury.

2) We need to be careful on determining which is useful. There are some great resources online, but overall, there's probably more out there that can be do more harm than good.
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5th Geup Jidokwan Tae Kwon Do/Hap Ki Do

(Never officially tested in aikido, iaido or kendo)
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