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OneKickWonder
Purple Belt
Joined: 17 Feb 2018
Posts: 513
Styles: Tang soo do
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 Posted: Wed Jun 13, 2018 10:59 am Post subject: |
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| pers wrote: |
| OneKickWonder wrote: |
| pers wrote: |
your hill should never touch the floor but there must be a little space like a thin sheet of paper between the hill and the floor .
. |
Sounds like a good way to develop achilles tendinitis or plantar fasciitis.
The human body is not designed to exert constant force for prolonged periods of time through the tendons you're loading in the way you describe. It might be something you can get away with for a while, but chronic foot pain is almost inevitable in later life if forces are not distributed correctly. |
Contrary to what you have said this would not put any pressure on the tendons as when your body weight is on the ball of your feet it would your muscles supporting you.
I trained that way for nearly 30 years and never had any issues. |
Your muscles can't support anything without loading tendons. Tendons are the tissue that connect muscles to bones. You might be one of the lucky ones that's not had issues, but that doesn't mean that nobody would get issues from excessively loading their tendons and other soft tissues and joints in ways the body wasn't designed for.
If we were meant to spend all our time with our heels off the ground, we'd have evolved that way like many animals have, but we haven't.
But each to their own. If it works for you, great. |
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pers
Purple Belt
Joined: 25 Dec 2004
Posts: 503
Location: England
Styles: shotokan
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| Posted: Wed Jun 13, 2018 12:55 pm Post subject: |
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| OneKickWonder wrote: |
| pers wrote: |
| OneKickWonder wrote: |
| pers wrote: |
your hill should never touch the floor but there must be a little space like a thin sheet of paper between the hill and the floor .
. |
Sounds like a good way to develop achilles tendinitis or plantar fasciitis.
The human body is not designed to exert constant force for prolonged periods of time through the tendons you're loading in the way you describe. It might be something you can get away with for a while, but chronic foot pain is almost inevitable in later life if forces are not distributed correctly. |
Contrary to what you have said this would not put any pressure on the tendons as when your body weight is on the ball of your feet it would your muscles supporting you.
I trained that way for nearly 30 years and never had any issues. |
Your muscles can't support anything without loading tendons. Tendons are the tissue that connect muscles to bones. You might be one of the lucky ones that's not had issues, but that doesn't mean that nobody would get issues from excessively loading their tendons and other soft tissues and joints in ways the body wasn't designed for.
If we were meant to spend all our time with our heels off the ground, we'd have evolved that way like many animals have, but we haven't.
But each to their own. If it works for you, great. |
Did you notice I mentioned the hill is a fraction off the floor but perhaps I didn't come across very well, it's off when you are in fighting stance and in transition.
Test it, roll your weigh backwards and forwards on your hills and you feel your bones feeling the pressure now do the same on the ball of your feet with knees slightly bend and you feel your muscles supporting your weight and more fluid and faster movement possible.
_________________
never give up ! |
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OneKickWonder
Purple Belt
Joined: 17 Feb 2018
Posts: 513
Styles: Tang soo do
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| Posted: Wed Jun 13, 2018 1:20 pm Post subject: |
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| pers wrote: |
| OneKickWonder wrote: |
| pers wrote: |
| OneKickWonder wrote: |
| pers wrote: |
your hill should never touch the floor but there must be a little space like a thin sheet of paper between the hill and the floor .
. |
Sounds like a good way to develop achilles tendinitis or plantar fasciitis.
The human body is not designed to exert constant force for prolonged periods of time through the tendons you're loading in the way you describe. It might be something you can get away with for a while, but chronic foot pain is almost inevitable in later life if forces are not distributed correctly. |
Contrary to what you have said this would not put any pressure on the tendons as when your body weight is on the ball of your feet it would your muscles supporting you.
I trained that way for nearly 30 years and never had any issues. |
Your muscles can't support anything without loading tendons. Tendons are the tissue that connect muscles to bones. You might be one of the lucky ones that's not had issues, but that doesn't mean that nobody would get issues from excessively loading their tendons and other soft tissues and joints in ways the body wasn't designed for.
If we were meant to spend all our time with our heels off the ground, we'd have evolved that way like many animals have, but we haven't.
But each to their own. If it works for you, great. |
Did you notice I mentioned the hill is a fraction off the floor but perhaps I didn't come across very well, it's off when you are in fighting stance and in transition.
Test it, roll your weigh backwards and forwards on your hills and you feel your bones feeling the pressure now do the same on the ball of your feet with knees slightly bend and you feel your muscles supporting your weight and more fluid and faster movement possible. |
Sorry, I think there may have been some misunderstanding on my part.
I agree that in fighting stance the lead foot has no weight on the heel. In TSD this is grossly exaggerated for beginners, with the heel raised right up. This is just to get used to the weight distribution, but as we advance, the lead foot is fully down, but with all the weight on the ball of the foot. The back foot is flat but with a bent knee. Much like a cat stance as found in Chinese styles.
Also I agree that when transitioning between moves or stances, the balls of the feet are used.
I think my misunderstanding was I thought you were saying you hold the weight off the heels all the time, such that the heels never take any load. |
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pers
Purple Belt
Joined: 25 Dec 2004
Posts: 503
Location: England
Styles: shotokan
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| Posted: Wed Jun 13, 2018 2:51 pm Post subject: |
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| OneKickWonder wrote: |
| pers wrote: |
| OneKickWonder wrote: |
| pers wrote: |
| OneKickWonder wrote: |
| pers wrote: |
your hill should never touch the floor but there must be a little space like a thin sheet of paper between the hill and the floor .
. |
Sounds like a good way to develop achilles tendinitis or plantar fasciitis.
The human body is not designed to exert constant force for prolonged periods of time through the tendons you're loading in the way you describe. It might be something you can get away with for a while, but chronic foot pain is almost inevitable in later life if forces are not distributed correctly. |
Contrary to what you have said this would not put any pressure on the tendons as when your body weight is on the ball of your feet it would your muscles supporting you.
I trained that way for nearly 30 years and never had any issues. |
Your muscles can't support anything without loading tendons. Tendons are the tissue that connect muscles to bones. You might be one of the lucky ones that's not had issues, but that doesn't mean that nobody would get issues from excessively loading their tendons and other soft tissues and joints in ways the body wasn't designed for.
If we were meant to spend all our time with our heels off the ground, we'd have evolved that way like many animals have, but we haven't.
But each to their own. If it works for you, great. |
Did you notice I mentioned the hill is a fraction off the floor but perhaps I didn't come across very well, it's off when you are in fighting stance and in transition.
Test it, roll your weigh backwards and forwards on your hills and you feel your bones feeling the pressure now do the same on the ball of your feet with knees slightly bend and you feel your muscles supporting your weight and more fluid and faster movement possible. |
Sorry, I think there may have been some misunderstanding on my part.
I agree that in fighting stance the lead foot has no weight on the heel. In TSD this is grossly exaggerated for beginners, with the heel raised right up. This is just to get used to the weight distribution, but as we advance, the lead foot is fully down, but with all the weight on the ball of the foot. The back foot is flat but with a bent knee. Much like a cat stance as found in Chinese styles.
Also I agree that when transitioning between moves or stances, the balls of the feet are used.
I think my misunderstanding was I thought you were saying you hold the weight off the heels all the time, such that the heels never take any load. |
Thanks for clarifying ,that is more or less my point.
_________________
never give up ! |
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sensei8
KF Sensei
Joined: 23 Feb 2008
Posts: 16430
Location: Las Vegas, NV
Styles: Shindokan Saitou-ryu [Shuri-te/Okinawa-te based]
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| Posted: Wed Jun 13, 2018 3:35 pm Post subject: |
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| pers wrote: |
your hill should never touch the floor but there must be a little space like a thin sheet of paper between the hill and the floor .
Toes touching the floor and moving and twisting and turning on the ball of the foot . |
Styles of the MA have different methodologies and ideologies. As I've mentioned before, we, in Shindokan pivot on our heels when it's necessary; primarily in our close range and Tuite.
We've many techniques that the heel MUST be in contact with the ground; for the most, at the very end of said technique.
Who walks only on their ball and/or heel?? I don't. I use the entire bottom of my foot whenever I go from point 'A' to point 'B', like whenever I'm walking to the store or to the inside of the store or when I'm walking around inside the store.
_________________
**Proof is on the floor!!! |
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pers
Purple Belt
Joined: 25 Dec 2004
Posts: 503
Location: England
Styles: shotokan
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| Posted: Thu Jun 14, 2018 2:39 pm Post subject: |
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| sensei8 wrote: |
| pers wrote: |
your hill should never touch the floor but there must be a little space like a thin sheet of paper between the hill and the floor .
Toes touching the floor and moving and twisting and turning on the ball of the foot . |
Styles of the MA have different methodologies and ideologies. As I've mentioned before, we, in Shindokan pivot on our heels when it's necessary; primarily in our close range and Tuite.
We've many techniques that the heel MUST be in contact with the ground; for the most, at the very end of said technique.
Who walks only on their ball and/or heel?? I don't. I use the entire bottom of my foot whenever I go from point 'A' to point 'B', like whenever I'm walking to the store or to the inside of the store or when I'm walking around inside the store.
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I like to those moves you refer to if possible, are there any clips on YouTube you can direct me to?
_________________
never give up ! |
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sensei8
KF Sensei
Joined: 23 Feb 2008
Posts: 16430
Location: Las Vegas, NV
Styles: Shindokan Saitou-ryu [Shuri-te/Okinawa-te based]
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| Posted: Thu Jun 14, 2018 2:43 pm Post subject: |
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| pers wrote: |
| sensei8 wrote: |
| pers wrote: |
your hill should never touch the floor but there must be a little space like a thin sheet of paper between the hill and the floor .
Toes touching the floor and moving and twisting and turning on the ball of the foot . |
Styles of the MA have different methodologies and ideologies. As I've mentioned before, we, in Shindokan pivot on our heels when it's necessary; primarily in our close range and Tuite.
We've many techniques that the heel MUST be in contact with the ground; for the most, at the very end of said technique.
Who walks only on their ball and/or heel?? I don't. I use the entire bottom of my foot whenever I go from point 'A' to point 'B', like whenever I'm walking to the store or to the inside of the store or when I'm walking around inside the store.
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I like to those moves you refer to if possible, are there any clips on YouTube you can direct me to? |
Check out Mr. Rick Hotten's video's; he's Shotokan and solid!!
_________________
**Proof is on the floor!!! |
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LLLEARNER
Brown Belt
Joined: 10 Feb 2016
Posts: 687
Location: Central Maine
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| Posted: Thu Jun 14, 2018 3:28 pm Post subject: |
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| sensei8 wrote: |
| pers wrote: |
| sensei8 wrote: |
| pers wrote: |
your hill should never touch the floor but there must be a little space like a thin sheet of paper between the hill and the floor .
Toes touching the floor and moving and twisting and turning on the ball of the foot . |
Styles of the MA have different methodologies and ideologies. As I've mentioned before, we, in Shindokan pivot on our heels when it's necessary; primarily in our close range and Tuite.
We've many techniques that the heel MUST be in contact with the ground; for the most, at the very end of said technique.
Who walks only on their ball and/or heel?? I don't. I use the entire bottom of my foot whenever I go from point 'A' to point 'B', like whenever I'm walking to the store or to the inside of the store or when I'm walking around inside the store.
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I like to those moves you refer to if possible, are there any clips on YouTube you can direct me to? |
Check out Mr. Rick Hotten's video's; he's Shotokan and solid!!
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He has a short one that is about the connection to the floor.
_________________
"Those who know don't talk. Those who talk don't know." ~ Lao-tzu, Tao Te Ching
"Walk a single path, becoming neither cocky with victory nor broken with defeat, without forgetting caution when all is quiet or becoming frightened when danger threatens." ~ Jigaro Kano |
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pers
Purple Belt
Joined: 25 Dec 2004
Posts: 503
Location: England
Styles: shotokan
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| Posted: Fri Jun 15, 2018 1:54 am Post subject: |
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I saw couple of clips, didn't see him pivoting on his hills but using ball of his foot.
Very capable karateka.
I was mainly interested to see the shindokan karate pivoting on their Hill as mentioned above.
_________________
never give up ! |
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pers
Purple Belt
Joined: 25 Dec 2004
Posts: 503
Location: England
Styles: shotokan
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| Posted: Fri Jun 15, 2018 2:21 am Post subject: |
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I just watched this clip of him talking about stances ,pretty much what I have been saying here ,notice his front foot and hill off the floor .
and even when he is at the end of his technique you may notice his back foot with his hill just a fraction off the floor meaning more weight on the ball of his rear foot.
https://youtu.be/jUTdsjb1OsQ
_________________
never give up ! |
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on the post.
