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GhostFighter
Orange Belt
Joined: 19 May 2004
Posts: 107
Styles: Krav Maga + Thaiboxing + Boxing
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 Posted: Tue Aug 26, 2008 4:06 am Post subject: Hitting the throath as selfdefense? |
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Hitting his throath seems very effective in stopping any aggressor in his tracks but how dangerous is it, is it easy to kill the person? Cause i dont want to risk going in prison when defending myself.
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Throwdown0850
Brown Belt
Joined: 16 Feb 2008
Posts: 701
Styles: Judo, BJJ, Uechi Ryu
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| Posted: Tue Aug 26, 2008 6:40 am Post subject: |
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kinda depends what laws you have where you live. A shot to the throat is a sure fire way of taking an opponent down. if the attacker has a weapon, then you have every right to defend yourself by any means necessary but, if the aggressor does not have a weapon and you hit him only once in the throat and it kills him? to me it would be self defense cause you only hit him once. but sometimes the law doesn't see it that way..
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tenshinka
Orange Belt
Joined: 09 Aug 2008
Posts: 137
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| Posted: Tue Aug 26, 2008 8:15 am Post subject: |
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| There are many areas that work effectively on the neck that are great targets. Its is dangerous, though, to hit straight on, as it would be easy to collapse the windpipe, and death would be then imminent. |
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joesteph
Black Belt
Joined: 11 Aug 2008
Posts: 2753
Location: USA
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| Posted: Tue Aug 26, 2008 10:32 am Post subject: Re: Hitting the throath as selfdefense? |
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| GhostFighter wrote: |
| Hitting his throath seems very effective in stopping any aggressor in his tracks but how dangerous is it . . . |
I'm glad you're concerned with how much force to use for self-defense as you are in defending yourself. Personally, Ghostfighter, I wouldn't want to kill someone if I can control or injure him instead, and preferably have him land in prison himself. The shot to the throat is, to me, the best immediate self-defense, and can be controlled.
The following link is a good one to Kelly McCann demonstrating using the jugular notch, which is at the base of the throat:
http://www.blackbeltmag.com/kelly_mccann_jugular_notch_control_technique/videos/139
The first portion of the video starts with how he checks for weapons while having his hands up in a space-defining manner; then he goes into the strike to the jugular notch. I like his explanation, in that he explains how to prevent the technique from becoming ineffective though it's a throat strike, and how to control the adversary without smashing the thorax.
Mallory Senne has a video series on women's self-defense that I've found has principles of self-defense that both men and women should realize. Here's the link to her video on striking the throat:
http://www.expertvillage.com/video/120270_self-defense-throat-strikes.htm
She will point out how the throat can be struck to cause discomfort, but not be effective. She then explains and demonstrates how a strike can be more effective. She does make you think about the anatomy involved.
It's up to you how much force you think you should be using in a given situation, but both martial artists, Kelly McCann and Mallory Senne, do show that you can strike to the throat effectively without it being fatal.
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Vee Arnis Jitsu/JuJitsu |
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tallgeese
Black Belt
Joined: 04 May 2008
Posts: 6879
Location: McHenry County, IL
Styles: Brazilian Jiu Jitsu, Bujin Bugei Jutsu, Gokei Ryu Kempo Jutsu, MMA, Shootfighting, boxing, kickboxing, JKD, Pekiti Tersia Kali
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| Posted: Tue Aug 26, 2008 12:04 pm Post subject: |
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Yes, striking the throat can be very helpful in a sd context. As with all things, the amount of force applied will determine how much damage and as a result, how life threatening it will be.
You can crush the wind pipe, that's for sure. But to a lesser degree you may only cause soft tissue damage to it or the surrounding soft tissue or fracture the hyoid bone which maintains structure. Death is not always the end result, although it can be.
It's actually harder to soidily hit the trachea during conflict than one might think. People tend to naturally tuck their chin a bit when punching, makeing it a more difficlut target to strike. Some people breath or yell while striking, making the target more durable. Sometimes, someo f these bursiers have so much neck muscle it's hard to get force to transfer well. So as with all things, consider it one more tool, noting more or less.
I find it to be more successfully used from rising shots say with an elbow or uppercut. Also, foreamrs thrown upwards will increase the chances of making good contact, but will sacrifice point of energy transfer because of their size. The most effective movement against the throat that I've used and gotten the most immediate response out of peope from, is actaully grabbing the windpipe and the end of a tie-up sequence. No, you can't rip the thing out, but you can cradle it a squeeze it with more reliable results of injury than trying to stike it as a moving target. Just some thoughts.
As for justification, I never take anything off the table. Any conflict may become life thretening. In this case, any weapon you use is justified. Including striking to the throat with the intent to collapse the trachea. Just make certain you understand what constitutes a life thretening situation and be able to articulate it. |
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Truestar
Blue Belt
Joined: 07 Feb 2006
Posts: 251
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| Posted: Tue Aug 26, 2008 1:05 pm Post subject: |
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That jugular notch technique is great as it can be used for control in place of a kill shot. While I imagine you can kill somebody using it you can also just use it for getting an attacker under control. In a life or death situation however, if a shot to the throat is available I would look for that right away. A well delivered technique to the throat is certainly going to end a fight.
However, tallgeese pointed out that sometimes the neck can be hard to hit, or its bulked up to where using it to down your opponent is very tricky and requires precision and power. Throat shots are generally going to be effective I think if you can deliver it correctly.  |
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joesteph
Black Belt
Joined: 11 Aug 2008
Posts: 2753
Location: USA
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| Posted: Tue Aug 26, 2008 1:31 pm Post subject: |
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From Tallgeese:
You can crush the wind pipe, that's for sure. But to a lesser degree you may only cause soft tissue damage to it or the surrounding soft tissue or fracture the hyoid bone which maintains structure. Death is not always the end result, although it can be.
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| Quote: |
From Truestar:
That jugular notch technique is great as it can be used for control in place of a kill shot. While I imagine you can kill somebody using it you can also just use it for getting an attacker under control.
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When I teach history and the topic is the Renaissance, I point out to my students how artists, whether painters or sculptors, realized the importance of knowing human anatomy for realistic artwork.
This thread on the throat, just one area, shows how martial artists definitely need to know human anatomy as well.
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Vee Arnis Jitsu/JuJitsu |
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bushido_man96
KF Sensei
Joined: 31 Mar 2006
Posts: 30188
Location: Hays, KS
Styles: Taekwondo, Combat Hapkido, Aikido, GRACIE, Police Krav Maga, SPEAR
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| Posted: Tue Aug 26, 2008 2:16 pm Post subject: |
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| tallgeese wrote: |
I find it to be more successfully used from rising shots say with an elbow or uppercut. Also, foreamrs thrown upwards will increase the chances of making good contact, but will sacrifice point of energy transfer because of their size. The most effective movement against the throat that I've used and gotten the most immediate response out of peope from, is actaully grabbing the windpipe and the end of a tie-up sequence. No, you can't rip the thing out, but you can cradle it a squeeze it with more reliable results of injury than trying to stike it as a moving target. Just some thoughts. |
Along with these attacks, striking with the flat back of the hand on the side of the neck can produce some blackout type results. You can also strike from the side with a knife hand strike, but you cut down your striking surface as well.
Being justified in this case is going to be key, I think. If they have a weapon, or make comments of killing or maiming you in the confrontation, then I say go for the throat. Or, if they are considerably larger than you, or possess some skills that make you more concerned with your level of danger.
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unknownstyle
Purple Belt
Joined: 29 Aug 2005
Posts: 553
Location: Texas
Styles: Matsumura Seito Shorin Ryu and Uechi Ryu
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| Posted: Thu Sep 18, 2008 9:31 pm Post subject: |
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depending what part of the throat is hit determines your outcome. if you hit high in the throat the possibility of crushing the wind pipe is decreased some, hitting low however will kill your attacker. once you strike there is not that can be done for them they will simply suffocate or drowned in their own blood.
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"Live life easy and peacefully, but when it is time to fight become ferocious." |
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tallgeese
Black Belt
Joined: 04 May 2008
Posts: 6879
Location: McHenry County, IL
Styles: Brazilian Jiu Jitsu, Bujin Bugei Jutsu, Gokei Ryu Kempo Jutsu, MMA, Shootfighting, boxing, kickboxing, JKD, Pekiti Tersia Kali
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| Posted: Fri Sep 19, 2008 11:38 am Post subject: |
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Again, depending on the "cleanness" of the shot, the angles both parties are at, the stage of breath that the attacker is in, the amount of power actually transmitted due to distacne and timing...the list goes on.
It can be a devistating shot. Or it can impact slightly off and do nothing. It still isn't the be all, end all target of sd. A good one I agree, but not necissarialy lethal. |
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on the post.
