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scohen0300
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PostPosted: Wed Mar 23, 2022 11:32 am    Post subject: How do YOU like to throw a round kick? Front kick? Reply with quote

To my understanding, there are 3 main striking points when throwing a round kick:
1. Top of the foot/toes pointed
2. Ball of the foot/toes flexed
3. Shin

Do you have one you favor?
Does it depend on the circumstances or where youíre striking?

In my own experience, I enjoy throwing a round kick with my toes pointed. I feel faster, and Iíd use this if Iím striking a head level target or a rib level target. The only other scenario Iíd use my shin is if I was going after an opponents leg/knee area.

As for the ball of the foot variation, I canít see myself ever using it. Maybe I just havenít trained it enough because I can still see value in using it. I might start adding it into my training for fun.

Front Kick:
1. Toes pointed
2. Ball of the foot/toes flexed
3. Heel

Donít get me wrong, I love the classic karate kick - using the front kick, striking with the ball of the foot. But I find it so hard to get some real power behind it! Iíve taught this concept to my students, but I want them to focus on using their front kick as a groin strike (toes pointed) for self defense purposes. On another note, the school I teach at only ever uses it as a groin strike, or a kick to the face if theyíre wearing shoes.

On the other hand, my knees donít seem to be a fan of using the heel for a front kick, for whatever reason. Yet my coworker prefers it over any of the two other variations! To each their own - another beauty of the martial arts.

As for the side kick, I understand the two main variations are using the heel and the blade of the foot. If youíd like to add some info on that, feel free!
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crash
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PostPosted: Wed Mar 23, 2022 7:50 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

round kick- top of the foot
front kick- ball of the foot
side kick- heel
when the side kick is fully extended it is basically the same position as a back kick or spinning back kick.when practicing a side kick in slow motion or by steps i teach students to get in a side stance, slide the rear led forward while turning the foot to point backward, lift and "cock" or "chamber" the kicking leg (at this point you are now actually in a back kick position, only facing forward...lol)extend the kick forward to the target and end with it pulling back and returning to a side stance.
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bushido_man96
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PostPosted: Wed Mar 23, 2022 9:31 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

For me, it depends. I find value in all the approaches, depending on the target and how I set it up. I like to break boards with round kicks, and I've done 3 with the ball of the foot, and I've broken 2 boards with the instep. When I'm sparring, I often kick with the top of the foot, especially when going to the head. When I'm using the shin as the tool, I still tend to point my foot. I'm not sure I'd ever use ball of the foot in an actual scenario, though, because having shoes on changes things.

For front kick, kind of the same things. Going to the groin, I'll point my foot and use the top. With shoes on and doing a pushing/thrusting type kick, I'm thinking heel, but more than likely the whole bottom of the foot is striking the target.
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sensei8
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Joined: 23 Feb 2008
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Styles: Shindokan Saitou-ryu [Shuri-te/Okinawa-te based]

PostPosted: Wed Mar 23, 2022 9:47 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Both target and situation dictate as to how either kick will be delivered. In short, I've no preference one way or another. All methods favor Shindokan because for the most, our kicks are set-up kicks, neither designed for particular offense or defense. Therefore, our methodology when it comes to kicks is that our kicks are executed as both an offensive AND defensive tactic.



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tatsujin
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Styles: Ryusei-ha Ryukyu Kempo Karate-jutsu

PostPosted: Thu Mar 24, 2022 7:50 am    Post subject: Re: How do YOU like to throw a round kick? Front kick? Reply with quote

scohen0300 wrote:
To my understanding, there are 3 main striking points when throwing a round kick:
1. Top of the foot/toes pointed
2. Ball of the foot/toes flexed
3. Shin

Do you have one you favor?


If I may, what are the circumstances or frame of reference that the question is being asked? Meaning...are we talking about a self-defense situation or something else?

scohen0300 wrote:

Does it depend on the circumstances or where youíre striking?


For me it does, hence my question above...

Kicking with the top of the foot (in a self-defense) situation can be a really bad idea (depending upon the target).

The bones of the end and top side of the foot (phalanges and metatarsals) can be fairly easy to break or otherwise damaged (been there, done that and got the t-shirt). Likewise, the shin can be quite painful if it is not be trained on a regular basis.

My emphasis is on self-defense types of situations. Therefore, I tend not to throw any sort of a kick above waist level in most situations. I prefer the ball of the foot as the main impact area, just as I would use the first two knuckles (pointer and middle finger) when punching. I've trained my shins quite a bit in the past and they do make good striking surfaces for kicks into the leg of the opponent (thigh and calf).

There was something that I learned from my Taijiquan training and I'll do my best to articulate it...maybe playing around with this concept will help you in reference to your comments about the front kick...

As you are training and playing with things, treat each step as a potential kick. Actually, it might be more correct or better to say that you should treat each body shift (tai sabaki - 体捌き) as a kick.

What I have found is that in training in "karate", most people really only go "empty" in one side or on one leg when specifically training the kick itself. Therefore, it is a bit like a setup. Meaning, there is a forethought to doing the kick and in a dynamic kinetic situation, that is not always going to be the case. If, however, we train each step or body shift to go empty, then the "setup" is done already and it is easier to apply the kick with the appropriate amount of power each time...regardless of what kick may be used. This is one of the great benefits of training in Yiquan (or I Chuan - 大成拳) standing stake exercises...especially when you move into the one leg standing stake (zhan zhuang - 站桩) postures.

Hopefully that made sense (and helps).
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aurik
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Styles: Shuri-Ryu, Uechi-Ryu

PostPosted: Mon Oct 24, 2022 9:17 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

To resurrect an old thread...

In Uechi-Ryu, we use the sokusen geri -- meaning, the first 3 toes are the striking point. It takes years of practice and conditioning to get it right, but once you do... you'll never want to kick another way again. I've done toe kicks to people, and I've felt them (usually during our conditioning drills), and let me say that they hurt FAR more than any other kind of kick.

We are encouraged to kick to sensitive spots with this kick -- the side and front of the thigh, and the head of the calf muscle. Toe kicks to these areas can be debilitating if you haven't trained for it.

When we do a front kick, we raise the knee to the striking position and then point our toes at our target. As the lower leg thrusts forward, the toes stay aimed at the target until they strike and penetrate. We flex and brace the toes against each other against the impact. Again, this takes several years to get right.

Also, last week I learned that when we do a crescent kick, the toes are supposed to be the striking point for that as well. I have seen it only once, but I wouldn't want to be on the other side of it.
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DarthPenguin
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Joined: 03 Dec 2021
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Styles: Shotokan, Judo, BJJ

PostPosted: Tue Nov 01, 2022 5:50 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

aurik wrote:
To resurrect an old thread...

In Uechi-Ryu, we use the sokusen geri -- meaning, the first 3 toes are the striking point. It takes years of practice and conditioning to get it right, but once you do... you'll never want to kick another way again. I've done toe kicks to people, and I've felt them (usually during our conditioning drills), and let me say that they hurt FAR more than any other kind of kick.

We are encouraged to kick to sensitive spots with this kick -- the side and front of the thigh, and the head of the calf muscle. Toe kicks to these areas can be debilitating if you haven't trained for it.

When we do a front kick, we raise the knee to the striking position and then point our toes at our target. As the lower leg thrusts forward, the toes stay aimed at the target until they strike and penetrate. We flex and brace the toes against each other against the impact. Again, this takes several years to get right.

Also, last week I learned that when we do a crescent kick, the toes are supposed to be the striking point for that as well. I have seen it only once, but I wouldn't want to be on the other side of it.


Must admit that i am curious about this. How do you guys go about conditioning your toes appropriately at the start? I can see that for an experienced practitioner it may simply be a case of gradually applying more force to the kick, since the toes can already handle it. Am more curious what you do for brand new students.

Roundhouse kicks with the toes are definitely a devastating kick - i think that it is what the MMA fighter Giga Chikadze has been doing and he has managed several brutal ko;s from them.

I was also thinking that it might be a useful thing to work on a little in case of a kick going wrong when kicking with the other parts of the foot. While it might be a minor risk that it would land in the same manner as a toe kick, it could happen, so might be worth training for a little.
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tallgeese
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Styles: Brazilian Jiu Jitsu, Bujin Bugei Jutsu, Gokei Ryu Kempo Jutsu, MMA, Shootfighting, boxing, kickboxing, JKD, Pekiti Tersia Kali

PostPosted: Tue Nov 22, 2022 10:34 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

It really depends. The best principle to approach the question with is to match weapon to target. In other words, does the choice of contact area give you a better advantage or outcome. Different targets are going to demand different impact areas. So it's hard to nail down an absolute answer.

That said, there are a couple of generalities that I think are useful. First up, the round kick, I think the optimal impact area for this in MOST circumstances is the shin. It's nature's baseball bat and has not little bones that are prone to breaking. It's also an easier motion for most people vs. the ball of the foot. However, I'd not say the ball of the foot is without use.

Front kicks kind of belong to the ball of the foot. The trajectory just doesn't lend itself to either of the other options.

The side kick is the heel or blade of foot, with again me leaning to the heel since it's less prone to damage.
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Nevinyrral
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PostPosted: Thu Jan 19, 2023 11:02 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

For roundhouse either shin or top of the foot. Depends on the situation. I tried kicking with ball but its too easy to mess up.
And for front kick mostly ball of the foot and sometimes whole boston of my foot (especially in shoes)
Sidekick mostly whole feet, unless its for kata purposes.

I preffer to kick the way I would when I would have shoes on.
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R5ky
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PostPosted: Fri Feb 10, 2023 3:01 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I throw the roundhouse by chambering the leg and striking with the ball or shin; I avoid the top of the foot because I previously fractured my hairline when someone checked my kick with their knee.
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