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sensei8
KF Sensei
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Joined: 23 Feb 2008
Posts: 14406
Location: Houston, TX
Styles: Shindokan Saitou-ryu [Shuri-te/Okinawa-te based]

PostPosted: Fri Apr 13, 2018 11:56 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I'm not a Korean practitioner for the most part, with me only having 1 year in TKD, and Okinawan Karate being my forte, so I apologize for commenting.

I'd prefer to see a picture from the side, as opposed to a straight forward shot; I can see much more. Hard for me to say clearly if you're posture is akin to a side kick or a back kick, but, from what I can tell, you're posture is more of a back kick, from what I can tell. Can't tell if you're leaning just right or too far from the pictures.

Same with the chamber, I can't tell what it really is, a chamber or not...pre or post.




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bushido_man96
KF Sensei
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Joined: 31 Mar 2006
Posts: 27760
Location: Hays, KS
Styles: Taekwondo, Combat Hapkido, Aikido, GRACIE

PostPosted: Thu Apr 19, 2018 7:42 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Prototype wrote:
DWx, in your expert opinion, which of the two side kicks do you think is most profound on a technical basis between mine and this one?

https://postimg.cc/image/b5weykzrx/99569c54/

I argue that this side kick is more severely flawed by the backwards lean and overall bodymechanics of the leg, and is frankly subpar.


A few things could be at work here. He could be doing a side snap kick, which is a totally different kick. The backwards lean of many side kicks is related to the height of the kick and the person's body style. One should not lean back in order to kick high, but when one does try to kick high, the body will end up leaning back. It is ok if your body leans back on its own when high kicking, but it is not ok to lean back in order to try to kick higher. Hopefully, that all makes sense.

The kick in that picture is not subpar. From what I can tell, his kicking foot heel, knee, hip, and shoulder are all lined up, which makes for a strong kick with good body structure behind it. Another mistake I often see when people try to kick higher than they can (or just don't understand how to do the kick yet) is that they tend to bend inwards at the waist, not towards the kick, but towards the direction the front of the body is facing. This is not good, as it breaks the structure of the kick, and you end up with very little reinforcement behind it.
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DWx
KF Sensei
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Joined: 17 Jan 2007
Posts: 6148
Location: UK
Styles: Tae Kwon Do & Yang family Tai Chi

PostPosted: Fri Apr 20, 2018 2:18 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

bushido_man96 wrote:
Prototype wrote:
DWx, in your expert opinion, which of the two side kicks do you think is most profound on a technical basis between mine and this one?

https://postimg.cc/image/b5weykzrx/99569c54/

I argue that this side kick is more severely flawed by the backwards lean and overall bodymechanics of the leg, and is frankly subpar.


A few things could be at work here. He could be doing a side snap kick, which is a totally different kick. The backwards lean of many side kicks is related to the height of the kick and the person's body style. One should not lean back in order to kick high, but when one does try to kick high, the body will end up leaning back. It is ok if your body leans back on its own when high kicking, but it is not ok to lean back in order to try to kick higher. Hopefully, that all makes sense.

The kick in that picture is not subpar. From what I can tell, his kicking foot heel, knee, hip, and shoulder are all lined up, which makes for a strong kick with good body structure behind it. Another mistake I often see when people try to kick higher than they can (or just don't understand how to do the kick yet) is that they tend to bend inwards at the waist, not towards the kick, but towards the direction the front of the body is facing. This is not good, as it breaks the structure of the kick, and you end up with very little reinforcement behind it.

I agree with bushido_man96's post.

The other thing is that TKD has evolved and refined over the years. Today's kickers are more athletic and able.
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Prototype
Green Belt
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Joined: 15 Dec 2016
Posts: 367


PostPosted: Fri Apr 20, 2018 3:08 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

DWx wrote:
bushido_man96 wrote:
Prototype wrote:
DWx, in your expert opinion, which of the two side kicks do you think is most profound on a technical basis between mine and this one?

https://postimg.cc/image/b5weykzrx/99569c54/

I argue that this side kick is more severely flawed by the backwards lean and overall bodymechanics of the leg, and is frankly subpar.


A few things could be at work here. He could be doing a side snap kick, which is a totally different kick. The backwards lean of many side kicks is related to the height of the kick and the person's body style. One should not lean back in order to kick high, but when one does try to kick high, the body will end up leaning back. It is ok if your body leans back on its own when high kicking, but it is not ok to lean back in order to try to kick higher. Hopefully, that all makes sense.

The kick in that picture is not subpar. From what I can tell, his kicking foot heel, knee, hip, and shoulder are all lined up, which makes for a strong kick with good body structure behind it. Another mistake I often see when people try to kick higher than they can (or just don't understand how to do the kick yet) is that they tend to bend inwards at the waist, not towards the kick, but towards the direction the front of the body is facing. This is not good, as it breaks the structure of the kick, and you end up with very little reinforcement behind it.

I agree with bushido_man96's post.

The other thing is that TKD has evolved and refined over the years. Today's kickers are more athletic and able.


You think that kick is stronger than mine? It's more consistent, perhaps, but consistently weaker....
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Prototype
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Joined: 15 Dec 2016
Posts: 367


PostPosted: Fri Apr 20, 2018 3:16 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

It's Jong Soo Park executing the kick.. Few people are more athletic. Still a weak kick.
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singularity6
Pre-Black Belt
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Joined: 26 Jun 2017
Posts: 958
Location: Michigan
Styles: Jidokwan Taekwondo and Hapkido, Yoshokai Aikido, ZNIR Iaido, Kendo

PostPosted: Sat Apr 21, 2018 5:23 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

How can you tell his kick is weak from a photo?
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OneKickWonder
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Joined: 17 Feb 2018
Posts: 513

Styles: Tang soo do

PostPosted: Sat Apr 21, 2018 6:02 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Prototype wrote:
It's Jong Soo Park executing the kick.. Few people are more athletic. Still a weak kick.


His kick looks fine to me.

There are many variants of the basic side kick. The one in the picture is just one variant. Note the arrow showing the direction of force. This should tell you which version he's doing. It is not the same as what I believe Funakoshi loosely termed the trample kick, which is a much slower but more powerful kick intended to break knees and lower ribs. That's more of a forward motion and with less lean. What we're seeing in the picture is a different variant with different applications. That's more like evade incoming punch and come up under the opponent's guard to strike his jaw or face. Less powerful, but much faster and suited to different targets in different circumstances to the trample kick variant.

I don't know which variant is considered to be the 'basic' yup chaki in taekwondo. In tang soo do, which is related but less influenced by sporting goals and closer to karate, our 'basic' yup chaki is the trample kick variety. Both variants, and many others, are valid and correct. Just with different applications. You wouldn't try to destroy a knee with the faster but less powerful rising variant. Nor would you typically want to risk going for the much slower trample kick variant to head height because there'd be a very high probability that your opponent would just take your kind offering and rip your leg off and/or kick you in the gonads and/or throw you to the floor by your leg.
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bushido_man96
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Joined: 31 Mar 2006
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Location: Hays, KS
Styles: Taekwondo, Combat Hapkido, Aikido, GRACIE

PostPosted: Wed Apr 25, 2018 7:30 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Prototype wrote:
It's Jong Soo Park executing the kick.. Few people are more athletic. Still a weak kick.


I don't know why you think its a weak kick. As was mentioned, its a still photo. You can't see anything as far as power or speed goes in either his or yours.

I'd be willing to bet its not a weak kick at all.
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