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Prototype
Green Belt
Green Belt

Joined: 15 Dec 2016
Posts: 367


PostPosted: Wed Apr 11, 2018 1:36 pm    Post subject: How do you rate my side kick? Reply with quote

Hope this works now..

https://postimg.cc/image/60lk65wal/f24dee73/

How do you rate it on a scale of 1-10? Any input is welcomed.
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OneKickWonder
Purple Belt
Purple Belt

Joined: 17 Feb 2018
Posts: 513

Styles: Tang soo do

PostPosted: Wed Apr 11, 2018 2:24 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

This is meant as constructive criticism. It's mostly a perfectly good side kick, so please take what I say next as possible options for further improvement of an already good kick.

You seem to be twisting and little too much, almost turning it into a back kick. I suspect that's either a bit of lack of flexibility at the core, or a slight lack of control in the pivot of the supporting foot.

Something that works for me that I've only started doing fairly recently is to ditch the speed and power. Sure, you should develop speed and power, but also balance and coordination. It's a big ask to do it all in one go. So I sometimes practice slowly. Maybe try breaking it down. Pivot to 90 and chamber, extend and pivot further, restract to chamber, and finally back to your stance, in 4 separate, slow steps. If you do that, you may find it difficult at first. Doing that slow will quickly reveal where you might need to work on some of the smaller muscles that stabilise the ankles and such.

The other thing is your extended arm. Presumably for counter balance? In combat, that equates to a lowered guard, and something to grab hold of. I believe some styles accept this or even encourage it, and I'm in no position to knock such styles. But in our style, we keep the guard up throughout. It might feel weird at first, but once you get used to it, I feel it gives better control, plus of course it means your face is still guarded in case it goes pear shaped.
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Prototype
Green Belt
Green Belt

Joined: 15 Dec 2016
Posts: 367


PostPosted: Wed Apr 11, 2018 2:37 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

OneKickWonder wrote:
This is meant as constructive criticism. It's mostly a perfectly good side kick, so please take what I say next as possible options for further improvement of an already good kick.

You seem to be twisting and little too much, almost turning it into a back kick. I suspect that's either a bit of lack of flexibility at the core, or a slight lack of control in the pivot of the supporting foot.

Something that works for me that I've only started doing fairly recently is to ditch the speed and power. Sure, you should develop speed and power, but also balance and coordination. It's a big ask to do it all in one go. So I sometimes practice slowly. Maybe try breaking it down. Pivot to 90 and chamber, extend and pivot further, restract to chamber, and finally back to your stance, in 4 separate, slow steps. If you do that, you may find it difficult at first. Doing that slow will quickly reveal where you might need to work on some of the smaller muscles that stabilise the ankles and such.

The other thing is your extended arm. Presumably for counter balance? In combat, that equates to a lowered guard, and something to grab hold of. I believe some styles accept this or even encourage it, and I'm in no position to knock such styles. But in our style, we keep the guard up throughout. It might feel weird at first, but once you get used to it, I feel it gives better control, plus of course it means your face is still guarded in case it goes pear shaped.


Thanks. Could you elaborate on how it's bordering on a back kick concidering that my shoulder and upper body is facing towards the target? One thing that did dawn on me is that the leg seems to have a curved trajectory? I think this might be me trying to kick next the camera lens for a better view of the technique, instead of straight forward (in which case the foot would cover most of the body in the photo). It might be deficiencies too, I just don't know. I rarely see myself kick.

As for the extended arm, this is indeed how we have been taught in ITF Taekwondo. I am perfectly capable of side kicking without it, and I don't feel it's necessary.
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OneKickWonder
Purple Belt
Purple Belt

Joined: 17 Feb 2018
Posts: 513

Styles: Tang soo do

PostPosted: Wed Apr 11, 2018 2:55 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Prototype wrote:
OneKickWonder wrote:
This is meant as constructive criticism. It's mostly a perfectly good side kick, so please take what I say next as possible options for further improvement of an already good kick.

You seem to be twisting and little too much, almost turning it into a back kick. I suspect that's either a bit of lack of flexibility at the core, or a slight lack of control in the pivot of the supporting foot.

Something that works for me that I've only started doing fairly recently is to ditch the speed and power. Sure, you should develop speed and power, but also balance and coordination. It's a big ask to do it all in one go. So I sometimes practice slowly. Maybe try breaking it down. Pivot to 90 and chamber, extend and pivot further, restract to chamber, and finally back to your stance, in 4 separate, slow steps. If you do that, you may find it difficult at first. Doing that slow will quickly reveal where you might need to work on some of the smaller muscles that stabilise the ankles and such.

The other thing is your extended arm. Presumably for counter balance? In combat, that equates to a lowered guard, and something to grab hold of. I believe some styles accept this or even encourage it, and I'm in no position to knock such styles. But in our style, we keep the guard up throughout. It might feel weird at first, but once you get used to it, I feel it gives better control, plus of course it means your face is still guarded in case it goes pear shaped.


Thanks. Could you elaborate on how it's bordering on a back kick concidering that my shoulder and upper body is facing towards the target? One thing that did dawn on me is that the leg seems to have a curved trajectory? I think this might be me trying to kick next the camera lens for a better view of the technique, instead of straight forward (in which case the foot would cover most of the body in the photo). It might be deficiencies too, I just don't know. I rarely see myself kick.

As for the extended arm, this is indeed how we have been taught in ITF Taekwondo. I am perfectly capable of side kicking without it, and I don't feel it's necessary.


Maybe it's a camera position thing, but it looks to me like relative to the target, more of your back is visible than your front.

Out of curiosity, did your instructor give a reason for extending the arm rather than maintaining guard? In tang soo do we have a couple of places in forms where we do that, but it represents grabbing an opponent's wrist while kicking his knee or lower ribs. In basic techniques, we always maintain the guard.
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Prototype
Green Belt
Green Belt

Joined: 15 Dec 2016
Posts: 367


PostPosted: Wed Apr 11, 2018 3:00 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

OneKickWonder wrote:
Prototype wrote:
OneKickWonder wrote:
This is meant as constructive criticism. It's mostly a perfectly good side kick, so please take what I say next as possible options for further improvement of an already good kick.

You seem to be twisting and little too much, almost turning it into a back kick. I suspect that's either a bit of lack of flexibility at the core, or a slight lack of control in the pivot of the supporting foot.

Something that works for me that I've only started doing fairly recently is to ditch the speed and power. Sure, you should develop speed and power, but also balance and coordination. It's a big ask to do it all in one go. So I sometimes practice slowly. Maybe try breaking it down. Pivot to 90 and chamber, extend and pivot further, restract to chamber, and finally back to your stance, in 4 separate, slow steps. If you do that, you may find it difficult at first. Doing that slow will quickly reveal where you might need to work on some of the smaller muscles that stabilise the ankles and such.

The other thing is your extended arm. Presumably for counter balance? In combat, that equates to a lowered guard, and something to grab hold of. I believe some styles accept this or even encourage it, and I'm in no position to knock such styles. But in our style, we keep the guard up throughout. It might feel weird at first, but once you get used to it, I feel it gives better control, plus of course it means your face is still guarded in case it goes pear shaped.


Thanks. Could you elaborate on how it's bordering on a back kick concidering that my shoulder and upper body is facing towards the target? One thing that did dawn on me is that the leg seems to have a curved trajectory? I think this might be me trying to kick next the camera lens for a better view of the technique, instead of straight forward (in which case the foot would cover most of the body in the photo). It might be deficiencies too, I just don't know. I rarely see myself kick.

As for the extended arm, this is indeed how we have been taught in ITF Taekwondo. I am perfectly capable of side kicking without it, and I don't feel it's necessary.


Maybe it's a camera position thing, but it looks to me like relative to the target, more of your back is visible than your front.

Out of curiosity, did your instructor give a reason for extending the arm rather than maintaining guard? In tang soo do we have a couple of places in forms where we do that, but it represents grabbing an opponent's wrist while kicking his knee or lower ribs. In basic techniques, we always maintain the guard.


I don't recall if we do side kicks with arms extended in basics. We kick so rarely outside of the forms, unless it's on mitts, so I don't even remember.
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DWx
KF Sensei
KF Sensei

Joined: 17 Jan 2007
Posts: 6139
Location: UK
Styles: Tae Kwon Do & Yang family Tai Chi

PostPosted: Wed Apr 11, 2018 3:39 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Looks like a big improvement on your previous post Prototype. The alignment is a lot better and looks like your flexibility has improved. Good work.

I would agree with OneKickWonder in that there is small amount of over-rotation on the hip. From the still it actually looks like tight hip flexors to me. The hips need to be stacked vertically but you are slightly over rotated away from the kick. If you drive the right hip round a bit more you'd get more power into it.
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DWx
KF Sensei
KF Sensei

Joined: 17 Jan 2007
Posts: 6139
Location: UK
Styles: Tae Kwon Do & Yang family Tai Chi

PostPosted: Wed Apr 11, 2018 3:46 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

OneKickWonder wrote:

Out of curiosity, did your instructor give a reason for extending the arm rather than maintaining guard? In tang soo do we have a couple of places in forms where we do that, but it represents grabbing an opponent's wrist while kicking his knee or lower ribs. In basic techniques, we always maintain the guard.

What he's doing is correct by ITF style. The arm goes out in a high punch parallel to the leg. The reason behind this is if the kick gets jammed at the chamber, the punching arm covers the ribs against counter punch but also has an opportunity to punch the opponent in the face if they come in close to jam the leg.

Later at black belt level its done with the arms in guard as an alternative posture. Reason being is that at this point the kicker is supposed to be good enough that they don't get their kick stuffed and can choose what's more appropriate, punch or guard.
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Prototype
Green Belt
Green Belt

Joined: 15 Dec 2016
Posts: 367


PostPosted: Wed Apr 11, 2018 5:36 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

DWx wrote:
Looks like a big improvement on your previous post Prototype. The alignment is a lot better and looks like your flexibility has improved. Good work.

I would agree with OneKickWonder in that there is small amount of over-rotation on the hip. From the still it actually looks like tight hip flexors to me. The hips need to be stacked vertically but you are slightly over rotated away from the kick. If you drive the right hip round a bit more you'd get more power into it.


Thanks! The alignment looks better but is my chambering improved by ITF standards? This is my peak flexibility when actively training. When I get inactive it quickly deterioriates. Or it's the same! You tell me

Here's a still of it below:
https://postimg.cc/image/z0p5dbofx/
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bushido_man96
KF Sensei
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Joined: 31 Mar 2006
Posts: 27701
Location: Hays, KS
Styles: Taekwondo, Combat Hapkido, Aikido, GRACIE

PostPosted: Wed Apr 11, 2018 11:06 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I think the chamber is looking ok. It could maybe be a bit higher, but I think its ok. I like to have my knee up high enough that my upper leg is parallel with the floor when I start to execute the kick.

As far as rating the first picture, that's kind of hard to do without seeing the kick in its entirety, from start to finish. Anyone can get a good picture of a pose. I'm not saying that you are posing in that still, but it remains that I can't see the rest of the kick. The side kicks is all about the proper body alignment when you get your leg into chamber position. This is the hardest part for new students, and their tendency is to cheat it into kind of a half round kick instead of a full, straight side kick.

If you could post some videos of you doing side kicks, we could give more input.
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Prototype
Green Belt
Green Belt

Joined: 15 Dec 2016
Posts: 367


PostPosted: Thu Apr 12, 2018 7:45 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

DWx, in your expert opinion, which of the two side kicks do you think is most profound on a technical basis between mine and this one?

https://postimg.cc/image/b5weykzrx/99569c54/

I argue that this side kick is more severely flawed by the backwards lean and overall bodymechanics of the leg, and is frankly subpar.
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