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Prototype
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Joined: 15 Dec 2016
Posts: 367


PostPosted: Thu Apr 19, 2018 3:16 pm    Post subject: How I throw a dolyo chagi (instep version) Reply with quote

Interested to hear if my method is home-cooked ( which I suspect)

First step is that I lunge forward and swing my leg slightly off the ground to create forward momentum. Most people use primarily their hips open accomplish this, but I am stiff as a board and go about my own ways

Here's a snapshot of it https://postimg.cc/image/d8jmoiuij/38ad05d5/

Then I chamber and twist

https://postimg.cc/image/7kdbxndbf/885a4665/

And then pivot and flick out the foot.

https://postimg.cc/image/wqea4sc4b/05416555/
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OneKickWonder
Purple Belt
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Joined: 17 Feb 2018
Posts: 513

Styles: Tang soo do

PostPosted: Thu Apr 19, 2018 3:35 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

It's hard to be sure from still pics and a short description, but it looks about right to me.

But you really need to work on loosening and strengthening your hips if they are, as you say, stiff as a board. Everything centres around the hips.
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Prototype
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PostPosted: Thu Apr 19, 2018 3:39 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

OneKickWonder wrote:
It's hard to be sure from still pics and a short description, but it looks about right to me.

But you really need to work on loosening and strengthening your hips if they are, as you say, stiff as a board. Everything centres around the hips.


I can still use them but it tends to be closed hips when I kick. Strangely enough, my hips are open when I do rising side kicks.. No problem at all.. But when I kick... They close. Why do you think that is?
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OneKickWonder
Purple Belt
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Joined: 17 Feb 2018
Posts: 513

Styles: Tang soo do

PostPosted: Thu Apr 19, 2018 4:01 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Prototype wrote:
OneKickWonder wrote:
It's hard to be sure from still pics and a short description, but it looks about right to me.

But you really need to work on loosening and strengthening your hips if they are, as you say, stiff as a board. Everything centres around the hips.


I can still use them but it tends to be closed hips when I kick. Strangely enough, my hips are open when I do rising side kicks.. No problem at all.. But when I kick... They close. Why do you think that is?


My guess would be a muscle imbalance. We have a tendency to focus on our big muscles. But there are lots of much smaller but vitally important muscles in the area of the lower back down into the legs. They tend to be responsible for finer control and stability. If they are weak, the big muscles just sort of explode in an uncontrolled way and put huge forces on the joints.

If I were to be so bold as to offer a tip, it would be this. Take a leaf out of the book of the tai chi guys. Practice your technique in slow motion, while paying absolute attention to detail. Don't throw the kick, but lift slowly and steadily. You might find it surprisingly difficult. Especially at first. But it will highlight exactly where any weakness is or muscle tension etc. If you identify a weak spot or tight spot, then you could do specific exercises to rectify it. Even if you don't add in specific exercises, just performing the technique in slow motion trains the brain to recruit the right muscles in the right sequence without causing pain and injury.

The brain and nervous system is a clever thing. If anything at all is wrong with your technique and it puts excess force on anything, your nerves tell your brain, even before it hurts, and your brain takes steps to protect the area, without you even being conscious of it happening. It manifests as a sense of tightness and/or weakness when doing the thing that puts the stress on. Practicing in slow motion not only helps you identify any area that needs works, but also helps convince your brain and nervous system that it's OK, so it doesn't automatically lock up to protect the muscles.
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Prototype
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Joined: 15 Dec 2016
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PostPosted: Thu Apr 19, 2018 4:21 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

OneKickWonder wrote:
Prototype wrote:
OneKickWonder wrote:
It's hard to be sure from still pics and a short description, but it looks about right to me.

But you really need to work on loosening and strengthening your hips if they are, as you say, stiff as a board. Everything centres around the hips.


I can still use them but it tends to be closed hips when I kick. Strangely enough, my hips are open when I do rising side kicks.. No problem at all.. But when I kick... They close. Why do you think that is?


My guess would be a muscle imbalance. We have a tendency to focus on our big muscles. But there are lots of much smaller but vitally important muscles in the area of the lower back down into the legs. They tend to be responsible for finer control and stability. If they are weak, the big muscles just sort of explode in an uncontrolled way and put huge forces on the joints.

If I were to be so bold as to offer a tip, it would be this. Take a leaf out of the book of the tai chi guys. Practice your technique in slow motion, while paying absolute attention to detail. Don't throw the kick, but lift slowly and steadily. You might find it surprisingly difficult. Especially at first. But it will highlight exactly where any weakness is or muscle tension etc. If you identify a weak spot or tight spot, then you could do specific exercises to rectify it. Even if you don't add in specific exercises, just performing the technique in slow motion trains the brain to recruit the right muscles in the right sequence without causing pain and injury.

The brain and nervous system is a clever thing. If anything at all is wrong with your technique and it puts excess force on anything, your nerves tell your brain, even before it hurts, and your brain takes steps to protect the area, without you even being conscious of it happening. It manifests as a sense of tightness and/or weakness when doing the thing that puts the stress on. Practicing in slow motion not only helps you identify any area that needs works, but also helps convince your brain and nervous system that it's OK, so it doesn't automatically lock up to protect the muscles.


I'm not flexible enough to even remotely execute slow roundhouse kicks beyond low kicks. I rely on forward momentum all the time, or else my leg won't go up even to mid section.
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OneKickWonder
Purple Belt
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Joined: 17 Feb 2018
Posts: 513

Styles: Tang soo do

PostPosted: Thu Apr 19, 2018 4:27 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Prototype wrote:
OneKickWonder wrote:
Prototype wrote:
OneKickWonder wrote:
It's hard to be sure from still pics and a short description, but it looks about right to me.

But you really need to work on loosening and strengthening your hips if they are, as you say, stiff as a board. Everything centres around the hips.


I can still use them but it tends to be closed hips when I kick. Strangely enough, my hips are open when I do rising side kicks.. No problem at all.. But when I kick... They close. Why do you think that is?


My guess would be a muscle imbalance. We have a tendency to focus on our big muscles. But there are lots of much smaller but vitally important muscles in the area of the lower back down into the legs. They tend to be responsible for finer control and stability. If they are weak, the big muscles just sort of explode in an uncontrolled way and put huge forces on the joints.

If I were to be so bold as to offer a tip, it would be this. Take a leaf out of the book of the tai chi guys. Practice your technique in slow motion, while paying absolute attention to detail. Don't throw the kick, but lift slowly and steadily. You might find it surprisingly difficult. Especially at first. But it will highlight exactly where any weakness is or muscle tension etc. If you identify a weak spot or tight spot, then you could do specific exercises to rectify it. Even if you don't add in specific exercises, just performing the technique in slow motion trains the brain to recruit the right muscles in the right sequence without causing pain and injury.

The brain and nervous system is a clever thing. If anything at all is wrong with your technique and it puts excess force on anything, your nerves tell your brain, even before it hurts, and your brain takes steps to protect the area, without you even being conscious of it happening. It manifests as a sense of tightness and/or weakness when doing the thing that puts the stress on. Practicing in slow motion not only helps you identify any area that needs works, but also helps convince your brain and nervous system that it's OK, so it doesn't automatically lock up to protect the muscles.


I'm not flexible enough to even remotely execute slow roundhouse kicks beyond low kicks. I rely on forward momentum all the time, or else my leg won't go up even to mid section.


Then start with low kicks. Work on your flexibility too with separate exercises. If you can't throw a kick slow motion and rely on momentum alone, then you are setting yourself up for a future of niggling pain and recurring injury.
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bushido_man96
KF Sensei
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Joined: 31 Mar 2006
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Location: Hays, KS
Styles: Taekwondo, Combat Hapkido, Aikido, GRACIE

PostPosted: Thu Apr 19, 2018 7:34 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I agree, start with low kicks, and work your way up.

Your snapshots show a way of doing the round kick, but its not the way I teach it or do it. I have the chamber more parallel to the ground, and bring it around, which I think adds more power, but can be a bit slower.
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Prototype
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Joined: 15 Dec 2016
Posts: 367


PostPosted: Fri Apr 20, 2018 5:06 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

[quote="bushido_man96"]I agree, start with low kicks, and work your way up.

Your snapshots show a way of doing the round kick, but its not the way I teach it or do it. I have the chamber more parallel to the ground, and bring it around, which I think adds more power, but can be a bit slower.[/quote

Isn't that just a matter of degrees? The chambering is clearly semi circular and it does travel in an arc.
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singularity6
Pre-Black Belt
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Joined: 26 Jun 2017
Posts: 958
Location: Michigan
Styles: Jidokwan Taekwondo and Hapkido, Yoshokai Aikido, ZNIR Iaido, Kendo

PostPosted: Fri Apr 20, 2018 5:34 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I didn't start seriously practicing MA until my mid-30's. That started after about a decade of sitting on my rump playing a whole lot of WoW. Needless to say, my hips weren't happy. My flexibility is still relatively limited, but improving, as I work on it regularly. Due to my lack of flexibility AND weak hip flexors, I have been battling injuries. Here are some things that helped me:

Leg lifts in 4 directions (lifting up while on your back, on your stomach, and you can get 2 directions when on your side.)

Stretching my hips with specific stretches on a daily basis (you can look these up)

Simple leg stretching machine (link isn't intended as an advert... )
https://smile.amazon.com/gp/product/B001QVN0X6/ref=oh_aui_search_detailpage?ie=UTF8&psc=1

Jesse Enkamp has some decent videos about how one can improve their kicks. He's a bit hyper, but the content is solid.
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Prototype
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Joined: 15 Dec 2016
Posts: 367


PostPosted: Fri Apr 20, 2018 6:19 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

singularity6 wrote:
I didn't start seriously practicing MA until my mid-30's. That started after about a decade of sitting on my rump playing a whole lot of WoW. Needless to say, my hips weren't happy. My flexibility is still relatively limited, but improving, as I work on it regularly. Due to my lack of flexibility AND weak hip flexors, I have been battling injuries. Here are some things that helped me:

Leg lifts in 4 directions (lifting up while on your back, on your stomach, and you can get 2 directions when on your side.)

Stretching my hips with specific stretches on a daily basis (you can look these up)

Simple leg stretching machine (link isn't intended as an advert... )
https://smile.amazon.com/gp/product/B001QVN0X6/ref=oh_aui_search_detailpage?ie=UTF8&psc=1

Jesse Enkamp has some decent videos about how one can improve their kicks. He's a bit hyper, but the content is solid.


Do you think my static stiffness affects my performance? i have no pain in my limbs and can kick fluently as long as it's fast.
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